[Moonkin] Guide :: 5.4 Edition

[huth]

Do I use those figures generally? After / before haste cap? Does Simcraft even calculate with hastecap?

Thx for any answers and help.

Andym@Teldrassil-EU

We do not have (reachable) haste caps, only breakpoints.

[Deleted]

We do not have (reachable) haste caps, only breakpoints.

Ah wrong terminology, but I guess the question remains the same :-).

Your gemming is all wrong. You should be using:
- 320 Crit gems in Yellow slots
- 80 Int and 160 Crit gems in Red slots
- 160 Crit and 160 Spirit gems in Blue slots

Thx for the quick response. I knew, gemming mainly crit was good, but had the information somewhere at the back of my mind that you still should use Int and Crit/Int for red and yellow sockets until 1 Crit >= 2 Int in term of stat weights. I guess I'll switch gems then for next ID and see what happens :-).

[Deleted]

Thx for the quick response. I knew, gemming mainly crit was good, but had the information somewhere at the back of my mind that you still should use Int and Crit/Int for red and yellow sockets until 1 Crit >= 2 Int in term of stat weights. I guess I'll switch gems then for next ID and see what happens :-).

1 Crit will never be worth more than 2 Int but that's not relevant since you get twice as much secondary as primary stats on gems.

[Alzu]

blah blah blah

I assume 10 man in the case: Pop your cooldowns when the bosses spawn. Then there are 5 targets to dot (2 rages, a strength and 2 bosses). During CA, you want to dot all them targets. Try to avoid using your cooldowns when you need to hit a courage. Moving isn't helping your DPS and it hurts even more during cooldowns.

I'm a bit unsure about the rages, but I dot them as well as they still take a few ticks before their deaths. If you really find them dying too quickly, you can just ignore them.

If you don't have Light of the Cosmos, the dots are pretty much worthless. They're only to proc the trinket. Just spam hurricane.

Do I use those figures generally? After / before haste cap? Does Simcraft even calculate with hastecap?

Just stick with Hit > Haste to 3706 > 2 crit > 1 Int > 1 Crit > More Haste > Mastery. In other words, remove your Haste --> Mastery reforge and change your hit/haste gems to hit/crit.

Regarding Simcraft, I suggest sticking with Patchwerk. The only difference with your stats and real encounters is that with more targets, crit gets a higher value. Mastery *might* be better on fights like Mel'jarak HC because you're camping an eclipse the whole fight but don't take my word for that. And that would be the only fight you would want to prefer mastery over anything else.

[Deleted]

@Alzu: Ups regarding the hit/haste gem. Just hit the wrong button when jewelcrafting them and didn't check again before socketing them

Regarding Simcraft, I suggest sticking with Patchwerk. The only difference with your stats and real encounters is that with more targets, crit gets a higher value. Mastery *might* be better on fights like Mel'jarak HC because you're camping an eclipse the whole fight but don't take my word for that. And that would be the only fight you would want to prefer mastery over anything else.

Btw: Interestingly enough, there's a notable difference between the "Light Movement" (first row) and "Patchwerk" (second row) options. That was what started me to wonder in the first place.
Int Spi SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
1.00 0.70 0.00 0.70 0.44 0.37 0.40
1.00 0.81 0.00 0.81 0.45 0.50 0.41
Hm but yeah, I guess I'll stick then to the more simple scheme for reforging. There's only one part of it that I don't understand right now:

Hit > Haste to 3706 > 2 crit > 1 Int > 1 Crit > More Haste > Mastery

What are 2 crit and 1 crit referring to?

@All: Thx for all the responses, they were quite helpful for understanding things better.

[Alzu]

It means that 2 crit rating is better than 1 intellect point but 1 crit rating is worse than 1 intellect point. Crit and intellect start evening out usually when nearing BiS gear so that 2 crit = 1 int but I don't think it's the case with your gear.

PS. Use wrathcalcs btw :-)

[Deleted]

I assume 10 man in the case

25-man. So 4 Rages spawn each time. Which is why I was thinking Astral Storm/Hurricane might be the better option if we manage to keep them all in place.

If you don't have Light of the Cosmos, the dots are pretty much worthless. They're only to proc the trinket. Just spam hurricane.

Alright, thank you for all your input. So to summarise:
I'd be camping Solar Eclipse, spamming Hurricane (even after Nature's Grace falls off) until the first pack is about to die and then I start approaching Lunar Eclipse for the usual opener on the boss. After the 30 second debuff on the boss is up, I go back to Solar Eclipse asap, continue Hurricane spam and again start reverting back to Lunar when the next pack is about to die, right?

[Alzu]

Even though I don't have experience with 25man, I don't see why it'd be any different. Just more targets to dot!

As for Mel'jarak, I don't know about your DPS but for us the 2nd pack is about to die just after the first recklessness ends so we just burst that down. Meaning that you don't have time to hurricane. But if you think that you can delay the next cycle (after recklessness is over, you'll be with 0 energy towards solar) so you'll sit some time in solar but still will make it to lunar for the next recklessness, then I'd say that multidot Sunfire (even Moonfire you if have time) in solar while moving slowly towards to lunar again. You don't have enough targets to hurricane there.

The optimal situation is where you hurricane and start moving towards lunar so that you hit it just as the boss is gaining recklessness. Don't starfall, it hits wrong targets only. After CDs the recklessness is over and the next pack should be dying asap.

[huth]

After the first recklessness, Hurricane is bad due to bombs anyway. No dilly-dallying here!

[Deleted]

I usually just start 1 cast from lunar, astral storm until nature's grace runs out (twice with other words) and then DoT all targets with moonfire and let starsurge carry me over to solar. Once there, I do the normal rotation to get 1 cast from lunar before the pack dies. Meaning I camp in solar with dots/hurricane until the adds that are meant to die are around 20%.

[Deleted]

Just because it isnt said in the guide explicitely: When I have the 4pc t14 Bonus, I go for 3706 haste And then full crit, right?

[huth]

5.2 is coming this week. I wouldn't worry about that much.

[Trollform]

5.0 Stat Weights

These are the normalized stat weights against 1 intellect for Moonkin:

Intellect: 1.00
Spirit/Hit 1.04
Spellpower: 0.76
Critical Strike: 0.67
Haste: 0.54 (post breakpoint)
Mastery: 0.54

11.0 Professions

Tailoring: gives 2000 int for 15 seconds, 20% proc on spellcast, 50 second cooldown. The average benefit is around 500 Int, minus the 180 Int you usually have on your cloak, for an increase of around 320 Int.

Engineering: gives 1920 Int, for 10 seconds out of every 60, for 320 Int on average.
Leatherworking: in place of 170 INT to bracer gives 330 intellect.
Jewelcrafting:Brilliant Serpent's Eye gives twice the intellect of a standard gem. Two of these can be socketed for a bonus of 320 intellect.
Blacksmithing: An extra socket each in your wrists and gloves, each with a, gives 320 Intellect.
Alchemy: your Flask of the Warm Sun will give a bonus 320 intellect.
Inscription: in place of the Greater Crane Wing Inscription grants 320 intellect.
Enchanting: on both rings grant an additional 320 intellect.

The remaining professions increase the secondary stats of Haste and Crit instead of the primary stat Intellect and provide far less benefit as a result:
Herbalism: Gives a haste cooldown via (ability), it averages out to 480 haste.
Skinning: Master of Anatomy gives 480 crit rating.

If your stat weights are correct, then...
320 int x 1 = 320 damage value.
480 crit x .67 = 321.6 damage value.

This gives skinning the second largest stat value increase with 321.6, right behind LW with 330, and ahead of everything else.

Of course, nerfs happen and gear changes, so the crit stat weight may drop, thus making it a less consistent choice. Interesting, still.

[Jibjabb]

The stat weights themselves are outdated. Other professions are better than Skinning, but they arent drastically better. The weights for my character have other professions (that give 320 Intellect) currently giving only 12.8 more DPS than Skinning. Blacksmithing remains the best profession if you are hell bent on min/maxing your character.

[huth]

Not to mention that the bracer enchants have been changed to 180 primary, so LW is only 320 as well.

[gritiron]

So as far as gemming goes there is this myth that people gemming any secondary stat except crit are wrong. Here is the deal for moonkins and really any class with a haste breakpoint. The only requirements for classes like us are:
(a) You hit your hitcap and breakpoint pretty closely (~20 stat points or so)
(b) you minimize your crappy stat (mastery for us right now)

So long as you can reforge out of mastery on every piece and still come very close to your hitcap and haste breakpoint. It doesn't matter a rat's ass if you gem spirit, hit haste or crit. It is a trivial difference so long as you follow those two rules.

The best way to think about it is that Spirit/Hit, Haste and Crit are one big pool of secondary resources. The total pool size is the same if you gem crit or spirit or haste or hit. All the matters is if you can shuffle the stats around until Spirit/Hit gets you to hit cap, and Haste is at breakpoint. Whatever remains is in crit. Or mathematically (C)rit + (H)aste + (S)pirit/Hit = (T)otal Secondary Stats, if you fix H = haste breakpoint and S = hitcap then C = T - H - S is fixed.

In fact if you are min/maxing it might be some odd combo of haste and spirit gems that lets you hit the caps precisely, but to be honest it is such a small difference that working it out is time wasted when you should be thinking about the fights/practicing rotation/enjoying sunshine(lawl)

TLDR version Hit caps as close a you can, don't gem mastery

[huth]

Yes, that is fixed then. Problem is, you can't fix H and S.

[Aoshi]

Is the opener still the same with the new patch?

[Sunfyre]

Is the opener still the same with the new patch?

Yes. Nothing has changed with our rotation.

[Anyone42]

How does DoC compare in heavy multi dot fights, such as councle where you could spend 100% of time casting ht 2 dots, ht 2 dots, and never use a hard nuke?