[Moonkin] Guide :: 5.4 Edition

[mikoslav]

Why do you want to do something that already has been done?

OMG I dont .

I agree with 99% what you wrote. What is more - I totally multidot all targets in the way you just described. Especially since horridon can be a mess.



But from the completely theoretical (or mystical :P) point of view:
I have a feeling that 1 more uneclipsed dot is really less beneficial than moving your eclipse bar with wrath.
Lets say you have 4-5 dots already rolling, in which case - casting another dot improves your chances of getting SS by some marginal ( I may be wrong here, this is where more complex math is needed) value.
I dont mind being proven wrong. I am too lazy to try validating my point with math.
So I prefer to stay with my gut feeling.

---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 03:35 PM ----------

Also, i repeat, your agreement is of no consequence here.

Vagueness of the above statement successfully prevents me from engaging in the discussion.
you win.

[Stommped]

You are going to be moving the Eclipse bar in a completely reasonable time with just SS procs. There's no reason to try and stand still and cast a nuke that does inferior damage than the dot, and less damage/energy than an instant SS.

[Lilija]

I have a feeling that 1 more uneclipsed dot is really less beneficial than moving your eclipse bar with wrath.
Lets say you have 4-5 dots already rolling, in which case - casting another dot improves your chances of getting SS by some marginal ( I may be wrong here, this is where more complex math is needed) value.
I dont mind being proven wrong. I am too lazy to try validating my point with math.
So I prefer to stay with my gut feeling.

The thing is that theorecrafting and gut feelings are very far away from each other :P The fact is that hardcasting in multidot situation is the lowest amount of DPET and you should do everything to minimize it. Even marginal improvement to SS proc chance is good especially due to DPET different between SS and Wrath/SF.

Also, I used to follow similar gut feeling and I absolutly sucked at multidotting. The moment I started just dotting like mad, I've started to get better results - I gues mostly thanks to SS machine gun ^^

[Alzu]

stuff

I'd like to add that in some, or even most, scenarios (like Primordius) you want to focus certain targets instead of spreading the damage very widely. There the hardcasting is very useful as the adds need to die fast enough before they reach the boss.

I'm not arguing though with it meaning slightly less DPS.

[huth]

Does this mean DOTs applied by CA tick simultaneously meaning you don't actually benefit from more shooting stars procs (ie. 2 proc but you can only cast 1), only higher SS damage due to having CDs up?

Yes and no. If you're re-applying them(i.e. not refreshing), they will tick simultaneously, however, they have independent 30% chances to proc SS. That means you will lose an average 30% of your procs during trinket time to double procs. Though you'll probably lose those even if they aren't perfectly synced due to GCD restraints and the cast cap on SS.

[Slippykins]

Yes and no. If you're re-applying them(i.e. not refreshing), they will tick simultaneously, however, they have independent 30% chances to proc SS. That means you will lose an average 30% of your procs during trinket time to double procs. Though you'll probably lose those even if they aren't perfectly synced due to GCD restraints and the cast cap on SS.

Yeah, it should mean: 9% of procs will be instantaneously overwritten, 21% of procs will happen one at a time, and 49% you wont get a proc from that double tick at all. If your DoTs tick ~15 times, you'll lose 1-2 procs always, so it's not that bad really. Unlikely both will proc a Shooting Stars at the same time, much more likely for one at a time.

[Blizzyb]

It may have been answered, but I just came back to the game since the end of Cata, so bear with me (and I promised I tried and search for it):

As far as handling multidot situations with incarnation, what's the best practice here? Incarnation at the start of solar, multidotting and SS on proc and casting CA at either 15 secs left or as soon as eclipse ends? I did my first raid of T15 last night and was wondering how to handle the Horridon fight.

[Deleted]

As far as handling multidot situations with incarnation, what's the best practice here? Incarnation at the start of solar, multidotting and SS on proc and casting CA at either 15 secs left or as soon as eclipse ends? I did my first raid of T15 last night and was wondering how to handle the Horridon fight.

Why at the start of Solar? Do the usual opening on Horridon but hold it until the adds spawn.

Put Moonfire on all of the adds. If the SS procs don't take you out of Lunar Eclipse fast enough, pop Celestial Alignment when there's 15 seconds left on Incarnation.

[Deleted]

I felt like the pull rotation in the OP isn't covering everything and is a bit hard to understand (For example, it doesn't mention Starsurge until CA). I tried to update the list, I'm pretty sure this is correct:

• Place down 3 Wild Mushrooms under the boss
• Astral Communion until 1 cast away from lunar (70-95 energy)
• Prepot if desired
• Starfall
• Wrath once
• Incarnation and Nature's Vigil if specced
• Apply Sunfire, then Moonfire
• Starfall when the last runs out (Usually after one Starsurge and one or two Starfires)
• Starsurge on cooldown
• Starfire away
• Celestial Alignment when 0 energy, or 15 seconds left on Incarnation
• Detonate Mushrooms (Save them for later, if some amount of adds will be on top of them)
• Apply Moonfire, Sunfire will be applied automatically
• Starfall when second Starfall ends
• Starsurge on cooldown
• Starfire away
• Refresh Moonfire immediately before Celestial Alignment expires

And then begins the usual rotation:

• Starfire to Solar Eclipse, Starsurge on cooldown
• Apply Moonfire (If the one from Lunar Eclipse is still active, wait until it's last tick before refreshing it), then Sunfire (If you come directly from the cooldown phase, you want to wait until the last tick of both of those dots before refreshing them)
• Wrath until Lunar Eclipse, Starsurge on cooldown (Only cast Starsurge once in Solar Eclipse, or twice if the last one brings you out of eclipse)
• Starfall
• Apply Sunfire (If the one from Solar Eclipse is still active, wait until it's last tick before refreshing it), then Moonfire
• Repeat

Usually, you never want to refresh an eclipsed DoT before it's last tick.

[Deleted]

I felt like the pull rotation in the OP isn't covering everything and is a bit hard to understand (For example, it doesn't mention Starsurge until CA). I tried to update the list, I'm pretty sure this is correct:

• Place down 3 Wild Mushrooms under the boss
• Astral Communion until 1 cast away from lunar (70-95 energy)
• Prepot if desired
• Starfall
• Wrath once
• Incarnation and Nature's Vigil if specced
• Apply Sunfire, then Moonfire
• Starfall when the last runs out (Usually after one Starsurge and one or two Starfires)
• Starsurge on cooldown
• Starfire away
• Celestial Alignment when 0 energy, or 15 seconds left on Incarnation
• Detonate Mushrooms
• Apply Moonfire, Sunfire will be applied automatically
• Starfall when second Starfall ends
• Starsurge on cooldown
• Starfire away
• Refresh Moonfire immediately before Celestial Alignment expires

And then begins the usual rotation:

• Starfire to Solar Eclipse, Starsurge on cooldown
• Apply Moonfire (If the one from Lunar Eclipse is still active, wait until it's last tick before refreshing it), then Sunfire (If you come directly from the cooldown phase, you want to wait until the last tick of both of those dots before refreshing them)
• Wrath until Lunar Eclipse, Starsurge on cooldown (Only cast Starsurge once in Solar Eclipse, or twice if the last one brings you out of eclipse)
• Starfall
• Apply Sunfire (If the one from Solar Eclipse is still active, wait until it's last tick before refreshing it), then Moonfire
• Repeat

Usually, you never want to refresh an eclipsed DoT before it's last tick.

Can I ask why you are using mushrooms? seems like a wasted GCD to me, single target they dont do that much damage do they?

[Deleted]

Can I ask why you are using mushrooms? seems like a wasted GCD to me, single target they dont do that much damage do they?

Wild Mushroom: Detonate is off the GCD. This means you can place them before the fight, and pop them for free during CA, giving ~100k bonus damage. It's not a large boost, but if you're looking to do your absolute maximum, it's a small bonus.

[Deleted]

Can I ask why you are using mushrooms? seems like a wasted GCD to me, single target they dont do that much damage do they?

Your only waste globals for placing them but theyre off the global to detonate hence why you place them before and its basically 'free' damage no matter how low.On some fights placing them where some adds are gonna be later on and skipping them from the opener is smart for extra burst since they still do pretty high damage for 4-5+ targets like Horridon for example.

[Deleted]

Wild Mushroom: Detonate is off the GCD. This means you can place them before the fight, and pop them for free during CA, giving ~100k bonus damage. It's not a large boost, but if you're looking to do your absolute maximum, it's a small bonus.

Your only waste globals for placing them but theyre off the global to detonate hence why you place them before and its basically 'free' damage no matter how low.On some fights placing them where some adds are gonna be later on and skipping them from the opener is smart for extra burst since they still do pretty high damage for 4-5+ targets like Horridon for example.

I see, thanks

[Deleted]

On some fights placing them where some adds are gonna be later on and skipping them from the opener is smart for extra burst since they still do pretty high damage for 4-5+ targets like Horridon for example.

I updated the post to include this, since it's pretty relevant.

[Alzu]

Why Sunfire first on the opener?

[Reyzzz]

Why Sunfire first on the opener?

Because of lunar shower, duh.

[Surfd]

Why Sunfire first on the opener?

Global Cooldown on SF / MF means SF first, MF Second results in longer uptime on Eclipse Buffed MF when refreshing jus before last ticks, i believe. And because of Lunar shower too.

General rule of thumb has always been Apply the Eclipse Buffed Dot last after going into an Eclipse, to make sure you are getting the Eclipse Buff damage boost properly applied (think that is a holdover from the days where laggy client server interactions could result in non Buffed damage if you applied stuff too soon, not sure if it still applies today)

[Sunfyre]

I felt like the pull rotation in the OP isn't covering everything and is a bit hard to understand (For example, it doesn't mention Starsurge until CA). I tried to update the list, I'm pretty sure this is correct:

I guess you missed the big note above the rotation:

A note regarding Starsurge: You will always want to cast Starsurge on cooldown and whenever it procs, exceptin Solar Eclipse, where you'll only want to cast one Starsurge until 5 Solar energy, where you may cast a second Starsurge. Casting a second one during the solar phase (pre 5-energy) will cause you to pre-maturely reach 0 energy. The below rotation does not list Starsurge, use the above strategy to know when to fill it in.

[Deleted]

I guess you missed the big note above the rotation:

A note regarding Starsurge: You will always want to cast Starsurge on cooldown and whenever it procs, exceptin Solar Eclipse, where you'll only want to cast one Starsurge until 5 Solar energy, where you may cast a second Starsurge. Casting a second one during the solar phase (pre 5-energy) will cause you to pre-maturely reach 0 energy. The below rotation does not list Starsurge, use the above strategy to know when to fill it in.

Heh, my bad I did write that I felt it was hard to understand though... But yeah, guess I should have read it properly :P

[Alzu]

I understand the lunar shower, but my logic tells that if I get an extra tick of Moonfire during the opener instead of Sunfire, it's good. Meaning that Moonfire should be first. You will always clip the dots anyways in the opener because of CA.

So it's a question which is better: Lunar Shower or one extra tick? Or is my logic flawed?