[Balance] Sunfyre's "Fix my Balance DPS!" thread.

[land]

I do have an additional question about the CA opener: I read someone saying to use wrath during CA when using this opener, but shouldn't I just use starfire up until the point where my next cast would start pushing me toward lunar?

No, that makes no sense. You want to spam starfire (our main single target nuke) *till* CA is finished. After that then you wrath to get back to lunar (thus you open in solar pre-CA). Anyways, here is what I do:

- Prepull:
Make sure you have a starfall off the cd
Pre-plant mushrooms (why not?)
Astral Communion till you get to solar (any place in solar is fine)
Pop a pot 1 sec from pull (obviously)

- Pull / CA Opener:
Starfall
Celestial Alignment + Mushrooms bloom + Synapse Springs macro
Moofire or Starfire (they both get applied cuz of CA)
Pop all treants (couldn't get a macro working to pop them all at once, just spamm the living hell quickly till u see the 3 treants out)

Spam Starfire (this answers your question)
Use SS procs as you get em
Pop starfall again when previous one falls
Apply another Moonfire or Starfire right as ur about to leave CA

When CA is done, spam Wrath till lunar.
Depending on SS/meta procs you might still have a starfall running, so don't insta pop it as you get to lunar
Spam Starfire and try to let ur dots run till you cycle through solar (I try not to clip these dots and I'm leaving lunar cuz they are usually very strong, unless I get another set of awesome trinket procs).
Oh an yeah you will get another treant at this time (before you reach solar), pop it if you still have some good procs, else wait for a better time

Now back to normal rotation...

[Pascal]

That's what I figured I was supposed to do for the CA opener, but when I read up on it some people were saying conflicting things. I just wanted to verify. Thanks

[Bawk]

No, that makes no sense. You want to spam starfire (our main single target nuke) *till* CA is finished. After that then you wrath to get back to lunar (thus you open in solar pre-CA). Anyways, here is what I do:

- Prepull:
Make sure you have a starfall off the cd
Pre-plant mushrooms (why not?)
Astral Communion till you get to solar (any place in solar is fine)
Pop a pot 1 sec from pull (obviously)

- Pull / CA Opener:
Starfall
Celestial Alignment + Mushrooms bloom + Synapse Springs macro
Moofire or Starfire (they both get applied cuz of CA)
Pop all treants (couldn't get a macro working to pop them all at once, just spamm the living hell quickly till u see the 3 treants out)

Spam Starfire (this answers your question)
Use SS procs as you get em
Pop starfall again when previous one falls
Apply another Moonfire or Starfire right as ur about to leave CA

When CA is done, spam Wrath till lunar.
Depending on SS/meta procs you might still have a starfall running, so don't insta pop it as you get to lunar
Spam Starfire and try to let ur dots run till you cycle through solar (I try not to clip these dots and I'm leaving lunar cuz they are usually very strong, unless I get another set of awesome trinket procs).
Oh an yeah you will get another treant at this time (before you reach solar), pop it if you still have some good procs, else wait for a better time

Now back to normal rotation...

I admit I haven't been frequenting forums and for a while I was using the Lunar opening rotation for sometime ... this this something I should look into using if i'm hitting the 10289 haste BP and have 2 RPPM trinkets? I have never tried out this opening rotation, feel a little embarrassed that i've been using the other one if I should be using that one instead. :P

Thanks!

[Quackie]

People still play this awful spec? Good grief...

Edit: please don't post if you have nothing constructive to say. Infracted.

[Pascal]

I have some more comprehensive logs and was hoping for some more feedback. My guild went 25 this week and it was our first 25 man raid (this expansion, they used to be 25 back in the day like most guilds), so there are a lot of new people and issues with old people getting used to the slight differences here and there. The Ji'kun logs are missing because they forgot to start running logs.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/syyb82a9eiacy4ph/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vy7kckfne0tronu5/

Feel free to address the manners in which I died, though I tend to already be aware of those. I notice most of the glaring mistakes I make, but I've been more focused on trying to improve on subtle issues. We do Primordius the boring tank and spank way, and I died like an idiot on Twins. I'm also horrible at Tortos for some reason.

My armory is in my signature. I know my VP trinket and belt are awful and I still need my 4pc. Fiddling with WrathCalcs showed that getting a better trinket, belt, and my 4pc (with upgrades) would be nearly a 20k dps gain - 4pc being the biggest chunk of that - so clearly gear is a big part of it. Even an LFR 502 in order to gain my 4pc shows a ~2-3k dps increase. It feels like a bad decision, if it came down to it. I feel like it would be better to just wait for a 522 piece for the 4pc. I'm assuming WrathCalcs is a good measure and all, but how religiously should I be believing everything it calculates for me? How large does a DPS increase have to be for it to be considered significant?

I'd love any small, subtle criticisms as I'm not good at analyzing logs. I've read a lot of the posts and discussions in detail (4 hours yesterday, 3 hours today) just trying to see anything I can improve upon. I've read varying reports on when to go for the 10289 breakpoint, I went for it at first earlier as I read that as long as you still have 5k+ crit you'd be okay, but I got conflicting information telling me that I should wait until both stats would be above 10k. I know my bad trinket with its haste proc has influence on this, so would it be safe to say I should go for the next haste breakpoint after replacing my trinket, considering I have ~17000 combined haste/crit rating? Or should I definitely wait for the 20k combined mark? I enjoyed the extra haste for the brief period I had the 10k breakpoint and now everything feels even slower than before now that I've gone back to 5k. I know that's just a gut feeling, though, and not statistically sound. WrathCalcs has me gaining ~700-900 dps going from the 5k to the 10k breakpoint, but is it correct that the majority of ToT's fights benefit from higher crit due to their mechanics? Or is that incorrect?

[Apxutekt]

Hello there boomies!

Cant seem to output enough damage as I think Im supposed to. Theres derps here and there but I dont think that I'm that bad anyway. Where and how can I improve? Am I doing something bad, if yes, where?

Here are all the logs since my guild started HC progression: worldoflogs.com/guilds/265256

Here is my armory: Apxutektu - Silvermoon EU

Talents usage per boss:

Jin'rokh HC: Incarnation
Horridon HC: Incarnation
Council: Incarnation
Tortos HC: Incarnation
Magaera: Force of Nature
Ji-Kun HC: Incarnation
Durumu: Force of Nature
Primordius HC: Incarnation
Dark Animus: Incarnation
Iron Qon HC: Force of Nature
Twin Consorts HC: Force of Nature
Lei Shen: Force of Nature

My HC kill videos can be found here: youtube.com/user/Razboinik/videos (I got some fails on some, but note these were our 1st kills with Ji-Kun as exception)

Also in my bags I got balance tier head(2/2 upgr), breath of the hydra (2/2 upgr) and resto tier chest(2/2 upgr). Is it worth it to lose the intel for that crit?

Sorry for the bad 'links', but I cannot post with links yet. Any help/tips would be really appreciated guys <3

[Zareth]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tektu/advanced

http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/265256/

http://www.youtube.com/user/Razboinik/videos

I'll let Slippy or someone else handle your logs, but gear-wise, you should defo swap out the off-tier head/balance chest for the balance head and resto chest - that'll help you come closer to the hit cap and lose some mastery. As long as you're not wasting too much hit, Wushoolay's + Cha-Ye's combo beats either + Breath for the most part. You should be able to go for the socket bonuses on your ring/belt if you swap the tier pieces as well. You should be able to swap out your leg enchant for int + crit, especially since you're currently sitting at too much hit, and even if you get rid of some it should still be an increase to go for the crit one.

[Zippster]

I thought I might be able to get some insight on these forums at what % over hit cap does Breath become better than Wushoolays?

[Zareth]

I thought I might be able to get some insight on these forums at what % over hit cap does Breath become better than Wushoolays?

It depends on a number of things. Personal gear level, amount of different secondary stats, what the other trinket is. The easiest way to check it is to check for yourself using WrathCalcs. Slippy posted a guide on the forum here, check out the thread if you're wondering how to do it.

[land]

I admit I haven't been frequenting forums and for a while I was using the Lunar opening rotation for sometime ... this this something I should look into using if i'm hitting the 10289 haste BP and have 2 RPPM trinkets? I have never tried out this opening rotation, feel a little embarrassed that i've been using the other one if I should be using that one instead. :P

I think this has been analyzed at the EJ forums... Not sure how much of a gain it really is but considering that most ur trinkets and meta will procs at the very start this seems to me like a solid opener, everything aligns and you burst is huge on opening. With some lucky procs/crits and hero I'm seeing upwards of 850k dps burst on the first few seconds.

- - - Updated - - -

I have some more comprehensive logs and was hoping for some more feedback. My guild went 25 this week and it was our first 25 man raid (this expansion, they used to be 25 back in the day like most guilds), so there are a lot of new people and issues with old people getting used to the slight differences here and there. The Ji'kun logs are missing because they forgot to start running logs.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/syyb82a9eiacy4ph/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vy7kckfne0tronu5/

Feel free to address the manners in which I died, though I tend to already be aware of those. I notice most of the glaring mistakes I make, but I've been more focused on trying to improve on subtle issues. We do Primordius the boring tank and spank way, and I died like an idiot on Twins. I'm also horrible at Tortos for some reason.

My armory is in my signature. I know my VP trinket and belt are awful and I still need my 4pc. Fiddling with WrathCalcs showed that getting a better trinket, belt, and my 4pc (with upgrades) would be nearly a 20k dps gain - 4pc being the biggest chunk of that - so clearly gear is a big part of it. Even an LFR 502 in order to gain my 4pc shows a ~2-3k dps increase. It feels like a bad decision, if it came down to it. I feel like it would be better to just wait for a 522 piece for the 4pc. I'm assuming WrathCalcs is a good measure and all, but how religiously should I be believing everything it calculates for me? How large does a DPS increase have to be for it to be considered significant?

I'd love any small, subtle criticisms as I'm not good at analyzing logs. I've read a lot of the posts and discussions in detail (4 hours yesterday, 3 hours today) just trying to see anything I can improve upon. I've read varying reports on when to go for the 10289 breakpoint, I went for it at first earlier as I read that as long as you still have 5k+ crit you'd be okay, but I got conflicting information telling me that I should wait until both stats would be above 10k. I know my bad trinket with its haste proc has influence on this, so would it be safe to say I should go for the next haste breakpoint after replacing my trinket, considering I have ~17000 combined haste/crit rating? Or should I definitely wait for the 20k combined mark? I enjoyed the extra haste for the brief period I had the 10k breakpoint and now everything feels even slower than before now that I've gone back to 5k. I know that's just a gut feeling, though, and not statistically sound. WrathCalcs has me gaining ~700-900 dps going from the 5k to the 10k breakpoint, but is it correct that the majority of ToT's fights benefit from higher crit due to their mechanics? Or is that incorrect?

Man... so many questions

Ur doing fine dps wise, I don't see much to critique from ur logs. Tortos dps is all about cheesing on bats, timing ur solar hurricane with it.
Yeah the vp trinket is not good, well, it doesn't work well with our haste build that is.
Yes, we trust wrath calcs. I personally ran with a lfr gloves for a while to keep my 4 set up eventhough i had a 522 non-token ones, it was still o slight dps gain.
I noticed a nice dps gain after getting the proper 522 token gloves + the cha-ye trinket (which was when I got rid of my vp trinket and went for the haste build).
As for 20k overall, not sure, u'd have to sim. U could prob go for less, i.e. 17k combined, but it might hurt you more on movement-heavy fights with less SS procs. I still rememeber 2 lockouts ago when on durumu during the maze I had a lot of SS procs, it was reaaly awesome

Question for you though: how exactly are you managing ur treants? Can't really see this properly on WoL yet, but are you making sure you time them with at least a trinket and meta proc?


PS: if ur so much into optimizing ur deeps, why not drop herbalism for a better raiding prof? I dropped skinning for engineering, gained another CD (Synapse Springs) that is pretty awesome to boost my burst on pull and after that I macro it with my treants.

[Glurp]

Just a quick couple of questions hopefully someone can help me out. For a fight like Tortos HC what is the best method of maximizing damage when you tend to get hit by Turtles every time you try cast Starfire? Should I use the entirety of CA casting DoTs on bats (we kite them) or should I be using it for single target?

Also for fights like Dark Animus or Primordius how many secondary targets should I be dotting up in order to get maximum damage on the boss through SS procs?

[Othinsson]

Hey guys, I'm a main spec resto, but I'm trying to get better at balance. I was wondering at what point I should try and make the jump to the 10289 haste breakpoint. Here's my armory usual armory link + wow/en/character/malganis/Othinsson/advanced. I can't change up the helm or Durumu's Captive Eyeball, since I'm using them for my main spec(hopefully I'll see a helm and ring next week).

[Slippykins]

Sorry for the inactivity in this thread, I've been busy setting up my computer in Australia, and had some obligatory family things to do. Nonetheless, everything's settled now and I'll be regularly posting again.

I thought I might be able to get some insight on these forums at what % over hit cap does Breath become better than Wushoolays?

I think I may have answered your question in a previous thread (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post21697032). Though, what Zareth said is pretty much on the money.

Just a quick couple of questions hopefully someone can help me out. For a fight like Tortos HC what is the best method of maximizing damage when you tend to get hit by Turtles every time you try cast Starfire? Should I use the entirety of CA casting DoTs on bats (we kite them) or should I be using it for single target?

Also for fights like Dark Animus or Primordius how many secondary targets should I be dotting up in order to get maximum damage on the boss through SS procs?

As far as I know, CA essentially doubles your DoT DPET since it casts both. Since there's already a breakpoint where a DoTs DPET equals the DPET of Hurricane at some targets, when you double the DPET of your DoTs then I assume it heavily outweighs Hurricane. So while CA is active, you should be seeking to DoT absolutely everything for maximum DPS (assuming the targets will stay alive - there's no point DoTing a bat with 10% health). Since you should have at least 4 targets with 2 DoTs each, the SS procs should be sufficient to ignore Starfire, but do try to interweave it where possible. If you're out of CA, the normal Hurricane rules apply for bats. Elsewhere, SS procs > DoTs on all targets > hard casts.

It's a bit iffy when you talk about DoTing up more than 1 target for a single-target gain. While you would think the idea extrapolates across multiple targets, it doesn't always. If you're DoTing one additional target, it's been shown with medium-high levels of crit it is indeed a single-target gain. When you add a third, fourth or fifth target you're trading the same stuff: bloat time/increased cycle length for additional SS procs. The cost will be the same every time, two GCDs, but the gain wont be as potent. SS procs will absolutely increase, but the usable amount wont double, triple or quadruple as you DoT a second, third or fourth target. This is because as you add a greater density to your SS proc space, the chance for overlaps increases and thus you feature more waste with each additional target. An easy way to visualise this is say you could theoretically DoT 100 targets concurrently. While you will receive on average 100 times the normal amount of SS procs, do you think you could cast 100 times more SS procs than you would single-target? This is directly related to SS proc waste, and how our waste percentage increases with more targets.

So to answer your question, I asked another one. I'm just not sure at what amount of targets multidotting will stop benefitting your single-target damage, but I can guarantee you it's not a linear relationship. For your personal damage dotting every target would be your best way to cheese meters, but for boss damage it's ambiguous (for the moment).

Hey guys, I'm a main spec resto, but I'm trying to get better at balance. I was wondering at what point I should try and make the jump to the 10289 haste breakpoint. Here's my armory usual armory link + wow/en/character/malganis/Othinsson/advanced. I can't change up the helm or Durumu's Captive Eyeball, since I'm using them for my main spec(hopefully I'll see a helm and ring next week).

Looking at your gear, it seems like you have around 16k crit+haste, so I'd say go for the 10289 and test it out. With ~15k crit+haste it's basically the same DPS, so you should see a small improvement in your performance with 16k. When you get a bit more gear for your boomkin spec and replenish your lost crit rating, you'll start raking in the numbers.

[Othinsson]

thanks a bunch! I'll give it a shot!

[Marc2001]

I am still trying to decide if i should use [Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen] i am Currently using [Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance] And [Breath of the Hydra] I currently have all 3 trinkets and like that trinket but not sure after the nerf if its still a good option.

(10.2kHaste Cap+crit Build) I will post my armory if that helps. (also open to any other tips anyone might have)




http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ekkamoo/simple

[Pascal]

Man... so many questions

Ur doing fine dps wise, I don't see much to critique from ur logs. Tortos dps is all about cheesing on bats, timing ur solar hurricane with it.
Yeah the vp trinket is not good, well, it doesn't work well with our haste build that is.
Yes, we trust wrath calcs. I personally ran with a lfr gloves for a while to keep my 4 set up eventhough i had a 522 non-token ones, it was still o slight dps gain.
I noticed a nice dps gain after getting the proper 522 token gloves + the cha-ye trinket (which was when I got rid of my vp trinket and went for the haste build).
As for 20k overall, not sure, u'd have to sim. U could prob go for less, i.e. 17k combined, but it might hurt you more on movement-heavy fights with less SS procs. I still rememeber 2 lockouts ago when on durumu during the maze I had a lot of SS procs, it was reaaly awesome

Question for you though: how exactly are you managing ur treants? Can't really see this properly on WoL yet, but are you making sure you time them with at least a trinket and meta proc?


PS: if ur so much into optimizing ur deeps, why not drop herbalism for a better raiding prof? I dropped skinning for engineering, gained another CD (Synapse Springs) that is pretty awesome to boost my burst on pull and after that I macro it with my treants.

I figured wrathcalcs was a good form of measurement, but as with any theorycrafting there can always be exceptions. I just wanted to be sure if using a 502 for my 4pc was a good move. Even though it's theoretical, 3k dps seemed like it was significant enough for it to be accurate.

I obviously use all three treants at the start of my burst and during normal rotation, I tend to pop a treant with NG and when I have at least one proc up. I wait when I can, of course making sure I never let them peak at 3 without using one.

I've been asked before and have periodically considered dropping herbalism, but I don't feel I need to and I don't want to, just as I don't want to race change to a troll or even give my character a different haircut. I'm more concerned about being sure that I understand how to perform and that I know about what I'm doing rather than trying to max out my DPS. In my guild I was in for many years up until Firelands, I was actually consistently top DPS if not top three (of course depending on if the fight was disadvantageous for balance) and knew I was performing optimally, but after they broke up I was in a really bad guild for awhile playing a different class and then took a two month break from the game. I feel like I may be missing an important piece of the puzzle and just want to clarify if I'm performing my operations accurately. I'm mostly hoping that my DPS is in line where it should be and that it's my gear holding me back rather than my performance. If my guild finds itself in a spot where it can't progress without every member pumping every last tenth of a DPS out, then maybe I will switch, but I'm not a hardcore raider and I want to pick flowers.

[Slippykins]

I am still trying to decide if i should use [Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen] i am Currently using [Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance] And [Breath of the Hydra] I currently have all 3 trinkets and like that trinket but not sure after the nerf if its still a good option.

(10.2kHaste Cap+crit Build) I will post my armory if that helps. (also open to any other tips anyone might have)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ekkamoo/simple

Cha-Ye's + Breath will be better than any combination including UVLS

[Deleted]

I am still trying to decide if i should use [Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen] i am Currently using [Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance] And [Breath of the Hydra] I currently have all 3 trinkets and like that trinket but not sure after the nerf if its still a good option.

(10.2kHaste Cap+crit Build) I will post my armory if that helps. (also open to any other tips anyone might have)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ekkamoo/simple

You're 195 hit rating above the hit cap, which you could fix by replacing your Int/Spirit gem in your off-hand to a Int/Crit gem which will not put you below hit cap + gives you more DPS.

Like Slippy already said you should be going for Cha-ye's and Breath which you already do, thats good!
First time I ever see a Moonkin without a single point of mastery in his gear o.O

[lheoric]

I'm half scared to even post this but I did my first tot clear tonight and just feel like is was a nightmare. I didn't expect to do anywhere near what others did because most are 40 ilvls higher than me but it just felt bad. I've only been playing boomkin for a week and spent time trying to gear as much as possible and cramming on these forums so I'll take any advice on any encounter.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Byako/advanced

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y6ipdljxfyv0xlq9/

[Bonsaii]

I'm half scared to even post this but I did my first tot clear tonight and just feel like is was a nightmare. I didn't expect to do anywhere near what others did because most are 40 ilvls higher than me but it just felt bad. I've only been playing boomkin for a week and spent time trying to gear as much as possible and cramming on these forums so I'll take any advice on any encounter.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Byako/advanced

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y6ipdljxfyv0xlq9/

At your ilvl just stack the shit out of crit