New new warrior 4PC T13

[pvpKILLSwow]

Can't wait for this patch, going to be fun.

[ZeroEdgeir]

My main is a Paladin, Prot/Ret... when it comes with dealing with procs, stars aligning, and overlap of procs, I'm well versed in it. :P

[Laundry]

And you realized both sides, which i did too. The problem I see is that cutter isn't getting what I'm saying at all. He keeps putting words in my mouth and it's driving me absolutely insane.

[Swaggah]

I don't know, I see it as pasting another 1.5seconds rather then clipping 4.5. Because you never really "had" that proc to begin with

[cutterx2202]

OVERWRITING a slam buff with another bloodsurge isn't clipping. Slam is less important than 3 other abilities as TG, one of which has a 3 second cooldown.

It started with you showing you don't know what clipping means. We clipped in WotLK. We're not clipping here, we're refreshing as we don't lose any damage, any buffs, any uptime, anything compared to the base situation.

And yes, you are comparing this 4pc to some other imaginary 4pc when you say it's a damage loss.

Here's some examples of you comparing to the imaginary 4pc that never existed:

Yes there is. You have less CS uptime, which results in more DPS overall, but less than if you have 12 full seconds. Do you understand what clipping means now? I'm getting aggravated because your skull is extremely thick.

You lost 4.5 seconds of TOTAL CS uptime. the difference is 3 seconds of CS uptime which you lost...(You lost 4.5 seconds due to clipping)

cutterx seems to think that's it's not any bit of a DPS loss to have CS clipped.

THESE IDEAS ARE BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE 4 PC T13, AND COMPARE THE DAMAGE GAIN BETWEEN A CS CLIP AND A PROC AFTER A FULL CS DURATION

It's an OVERALL damage loss

Clipping a debuff is BAD. this lowers OVERALL damage than if you did not clip the debuff

I never said there was a negative effect.

oh, wait.

So you don't get more confused, yes, you ARE talking about an imaginary 4pc where it never procs during a CS and comparing it to the current 4pc instead of comparing the current 4pc to the base scenario.

[Laundry]

Let me pose you this question:
If you "refresh" CS as you say witht he pc, you have 7.5 seconds of debuff uptime. If you get a proc at the end of a CS (Second BT), you get 12 full seconds of CS uptime. Which one gives less overall damage? THE FIRST ONE.

Jesus christ, that's what I meant this whole time. You're the only one that hasn't caught onto that. Can you please understand the simpleness of that and let it go? you sound like a broken record

[cutterx2202]

Sounds awesome on paper, then you realize that you can clip your CS 1.5 seconds into a fight.

This is a vague implication to the 4pc being a damage loss.

[Laundry]

see that term vague you typed? That means broad. You're interpreting it like I said it was a DPS loss. That statement alone proves you have no idea what you've been arguing for the past 4 pages of this thread.

forgot to mention: I want you to read through that sentence again and find where it says "This is a direct damage loss"

[cutterx2202]

Let me pose you this question:
If you "refresh" CS as you say witht he pc, you have 7.5 seconds of debuff uptime. If you get a proc at the end of a CS (Second BT), you get 12 full seconds of CS uptime. Which one gives less overall damage? THE FIRST ONE.

Jesus christ, that's what I meant this whole time. You're the only one that hasn't caught onto that. Can you please understand the simpleness of that and let it go? you sound like a broken record

Damn, only took you 3 pages to say it right. I nag because I don't want you giving young warriors the wrong impression on how things work. Then they pass on the wrong information, etc etc.

Saying things in a precise manner is important.

---------- Post added 2011-10-08 at 10:03 PM ----------

see that term vague you typed? That means broad. You're interpreting it like I said it was a DPS loss. That statement alone proves you have no idea what you've been arguing for the past 4 pages of this thread.

No, it shows I know exactly what I'm talking about and that you need less ambiguity in your words.

[Laundry]

It's pretty safe to assume that the statement regarding young warriors is a coverup. You knew from the moment I presented the math to you the point that I was trying to make, and you still persisted.

I'm gonna stop typing about this now as it's gone on for way too long.

[cutterx2202]

*facepalm. Okay, w/e you say. I hope later on you can take something away from this lesson.

[eErike]

Bla

Ble

Beeing one who is not on everyone's side I can pretty much sum it up how it looks from my point of view:

Page 2 (starting from here):
Laundry: "It's a dps los"
Cutter: "It can't clip"

Page 3:
Laundry: "You are stupid, it's a dps los if it procs wrong, yes it can clip"
Cutter: "It's not a dps los you are stupid"

Page 4:
ZeroEdg joins the mix for a short while: "It can't clip because you don't controll it, but it will clip" (wthax?) but he also sais the smart thing "Sometimes it will overlap, sometimes not, live with it" and that's pretty sums it up.

But we continue: (!)
Cutter: (actuall quote here) "There is no clipping. Clipping would be losing possible damage. You don't lose any damage by it procing in a CS." and he perposes that it all might be terminology problem from both sides? (Very nice peace offering I must say).
Laundry: States that whenever it procs it's a dps gain.
Swagga joins: "It's only a loss if you use your 20s CS during a BT proc CS, which only relies on your own stupidity" Yes, very much indeed and that is a very good statement I must say.

Page 5:
You guys try to sum it up and throw dirt on each others.



So, to sum up all the arguments that are valid:

1. Yes, the proc can pop during your "real" CS and thus beeing a los of potential dps but not a loss to your actual dps.
2. Don't cast CS during the proc as that would be cliping the procs duration and be actual dps loss.
3. The 4set bonus t13 is very good and can proc good or better, the proc will never be bad.

Did I miss anything in the end there?

To sum up you war:

You are pretty much chasing tales here, Laundry is talking about a loss of potential dps and Cutter is saying that the proc will allwys be a dps gain, none of the arguments conflict with the other.