NEED_ROLE_BONUS - good?

[Weerra]

So, what about MAIL with INT. and SPIRIT. good for heals, and ele.
same for CLOTH with shadow priest and heals.

i hope i wont need to use the LFR system...

Mail and leather have it worst.
Enhancement and ferals can freely need on int gear because it's for DPS role too.
Moonkins and ele's can roll on agi gear with the same reasoning.
While restors are locked into int-only and bears into agi-only.

With cloth all the gear really is useful for all the specs. It's the least crazy armor type with that system - it will just be never affected. (which retains all the old problems with spirited mages and warlocks)

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure Str users are able to roll need on Agility trinkets (and weapons) in LFD - and to some point it makes sense as they still get slight benefit from agility (not sure if all of them). Hell, I had rogue winning a sword with parry not so long ago over my prot warrior.

Limitations so far work only with items you could not equip at all - Like rogue couldn't roll need on a shield, DK couldn't roll a dagger and so on. Don't remember how it works with armor types. There were additional restrictions on this year's Brewfest boss (previous ones too I recall), but again - they were only class-specific, not spec-specific. Elemental Shaman could roll on healing trinket, but mage couldn't. But haven't seen these restrictions done to that extend in LFD.
Will see wheter they apply these in LFR.

[Weerra]

Or you just queue as a DPS... why is this so hard?

Ooh, I sure will. Enhancement shaman.
And will be able to happily roll on every single piece of mail, or any jewerly and trinkets with at least a trace of agi or int on them.
Agi will go to the spec I'm wearing and Int to the spec I'm not.
But they'll both have the nifty +100 bonus

[underdogba]

This is a great solution, because it creates a de facto third rolling option which is automatically invoked without any extra user input.

I'm hoping that this gets added to the LFD 5-mans too, because it adds a lot of convenience as opposed to somebody waiting and looking whether somebody in the group actually fulfilling a certain role rolls Need before rolling Need themselves for offspec. That seems much more pleasant that anybody who can use it can roll Need, and the game itself automatically prioritizes the person actually running the appropriate role.

From a very purist perspective, the only downside I really see is that this represents Blizzard officially endorsing a certain loot distribution methodology, which is something that previously organically arose from out of the playerbase. On the other hand, this is the least heavy-handed thing along those lines that they could possibly implement, as opposed to say doing something as outlandish as making DKP or EP/GP an embedded part of the game.

[Twoflower]

I have mixed feelings about this.

But at least it is a clear statement. It's the first time that blizzard officialy says "main before offspec".

Just now when I had my druid ready to roll on ANYTHING leather

[HydeNSeek]

It's a better solution that anything in place now so I'm all for giving it the benefit of the doubt and seeing how it plays out.

[Deleted]

It is just an excellent way to short the endless quarell once and for all.
MS>OS, fact!
But also, this way they re still allowing the people that wanted the item for offspec to still get it over the ones that hit "greed" button, and they will just vendor it.
The forums are delivered for one thousand thread of people complaining and fighting against each other for loot. And the random troll popping up fueling even more the fire.
MS>OS worked for years till the LFD madness destroyed the community law on how loot should be handled. Now random pricks can roll need and stuff it up their a$$.
It was about damn time!
And also, blizzard implied that they will refine it even more to class level, not only role.
It seems that somebody is back to business. Also about time damn it!

[krunksmash]

if your not the tank you don't get to ninja tank gear if your not a healer your don't get to ninja heal gear. this is a good answer the 101 - 200 based on raid role is a viable solution to ninjaing

[paladinofcancer]

So, what about MAIL with INT. and SPIRIT. good for heals, and ele.
same for CLOTH with shadow priest and heals.

i hope i wont need to use the LFR system...

It will be flagged as suited for both roles. So ele or resto shammy would both get +100.

[Bearshield]

My problem with it is that it screws hybrids. I'm a feral tank, EVERYTHING I use is considered dps gear. So when I roll on dps gear, is it going to automatically go to the dps? Or what about caster hybrids and spirit gear? Are they always going to lose it to the healer? And then like someone else mentioned there's DK tanks and 2h weapons... I understand the idea behind this system but it's flawed because Blizz doesn't design gear for specific specs..

[ZombyChan]

My problem with it is that it screws hybrids. I'm a feral tank, EVERYTHING I use is considered dps gear. So when I roll on dps gear, is it going to automatically go to the dps? Or what about caster hybrids and spirit gear? Are they always going to lose it to the healer? And then like someone else mentioned there's DK tanks and 2h weapons... I understand the idea behind this system but it's flawed because Blizz doesn't design gear for specific specs..

I heard Blizzard was run by a single idiot who would never foresee any of this in order to fix it. Those are all empty issues. Not a single one will happen.

[Bearshield]

I heard Blizzard was run by a single idiot who would never foresee any of this in order to fix it. Those are all empty issues. Not a single one will happen.

And you know this how? The system flags items according to one of three types: tank, dps, healer. You really think the system will be programmed to recognize whether the person rolling the agi ring is a tank or a dps? Think about it this way, either it screws me as the druid tank by defaulting to the dps, or it screws the dps by defaulting to me the druid tank. It's a lose lose situation.

[Dazzy]

And you know this how? The system flags items according to one of three types: tank, dps, healer. You really think the system will be programmed to recognize whether the person rolling the agi ring is a tank or a dps? Think about it this way, either it screws me as the druid tank by defaulting to the dps, or it screws the dps by defaulting to me the druid tank. It's a lose lose situation.

When you roll on bear gear, since it "everything I use is considered dps gear" (by you 3 posts up), you'll get the same +100 as rogues and all the other ferals.
It screws neither of you, since bears can and do wear agility rings/trinkets depending on fight, incoming damage, dps requirements for enrages, etc.

As to others, it's not hard to add 'if you are enhancement spec you're not getting a bonus on int gear'
Mages/locks will not get a bonus on spirit gear.

Use your heads people.

[PBitt]

This is a good idea...though I can see an issue with certain items that may be equally good as tank/dps items or dps/healing items being marked as one or the other. They should do this for heroics as well, IMO.

[Deleted]

It will be flagged as suited for both roles. So ele or resto shammy would both get +100.

If it's flagged for DPS ROLE,
Enh Shamans in the raid are also in DPS ROLE,
Enh Shaman can roll on int+spirit gear, because this gear is flagged for DPS ROLE

Just an example of many flaws in this system - they either have to add class restrictions (which still won't solve every single one issue like that) or make is SPEC-SPECIFIC instead or ROLE-SPECIFIC.

I heard Blizzard was run by a single idiot who would never foresee any of this in order to fix it. Those are all empty issues. Not a single one will happen.

I heard it's run by lots of smart people who never let bugs, imbalances and stuff like that go live even with tousands of subscribers reporting them from PTRs.

[paladinofcancer]

Can't wait for QQ about Prot Warriors and Paladins able to roll 2H weapons against DPS specs. Either that, or QQ from Blood DKs unable to roll on them.

I'm glad I'll never have to experience that horrible, horrible system. o.O

They said CLASS role, not just role. So I would assume that means that as a Paladin tank, 2h weapons will not have a bonus for you since your class and role don't use that. They also said as of right now it won't go by players specs, so I take that to mean that enh shammies and kitty druids will be able to roll on any mail or leather that drops, since its only seeing you as a DPS shammy or DPS druid and any mail or leather is suited to those roles.

---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 10:20 PM ----------

If it's flagged for DPS ROLE,
Enh Shamans in the raid are also in DPS ROLE,
Enh Shaman can roll on int+spirit gear, because this gear is flagged for DPS ROLE

Just an example of many flaws in this system - they either have to add class restrictions (which still won't solve every single one issue like that) or make is SPEC-SPECIFIC instead or ROLE-SPECIFIC.

Enh shammies and feral kitties are the only flaws I see in this system, with them being able to roll on pretty much anything with a bonus. Maybe Blizz will fix it, maybe not. Its still better than the system we have now.

[Deleted]

well in the end I guess it's good that Blizzard decided and drawed a line for loot in the MS/OS discussions. I'm sure we've all been there (on an alt or main) when you were going for that 1 bit of loot, which didn't drop for 10 consecutive instance runs (start of cata a trinket from heroic tot for me, and shoulders from ZA which I still haven't even seen on my tank :P), just to get it ninjad by a DPS DK screaming: "But I R NEEDZ for OEEESSSS!"

I can imagine there will be a lot of bickering in LFR when things won't go as planned, adding to that loot-drama would put the last nail into the coffin. I hope that this system makes it's way into the LFD at some point too.

[zshikara]

I have been supporting this solution since the new need before greed loot system was introduced in wrath. Its high time they finally did it.

[Howard Moon]

No it can't. It's impossible.

Tank shield drops
Fury warrior rolls need, gets 100.
Prot warrior rolls need, gets a 1; + bonus 100!
Prot warrior wins with a roll of 101!

Hi there. You are replying to something I wrote before Blizz announced that the bonus was 100. Next time read the whole thread?

[Deleted]

What I was pointing out in my last comment was, not only that the tanks who want DPS gear are going to be running as DPS rather than tanks extending the queue time. Anyone who is loot hungry, would be better served by being a DPS than any other role, because your competition on OS gear is significantly less.

You are making the assumption that we're going to have the same "waiting on tank" queue times as we get in LFD. The reason why LFR will work better than LFD is simply because fewer tanks are needed in contrast to DPS. Instead of pairing 3 DPSers and a healer to each tank, with LFR, we're essentially pairing 8-9 DPSers and 3 healers with each tank that queues in the system, for a total of 25 players for every 2 tanks. This should make queue times for LFR significantly shorter for all players, regardless of their preferred role in contrast to LFD. I do not believe there will be a need for a built-in MS/OS system like the one you're suggesting in addition to queuing for multiple roles- And even if there would be, it would only cause further confusion, anger, and nerdrage among the raid groups' players if they know the tank has equal rights to the dps loot as they do.