Addons?

[Deleted]

@papajohn4

Why are you so against addons that ''measure skill''? I understand that things like damage meters etc. are not everything (especially not in GW2), but that doesn't mean they can't be usefull. Let's say the average dps in GW2 is 1000. And someone with only support skills is easily able to do lets say 750 dps (Anet itself said that everyone should do damage, support and control), then would you really want to play with someone who only does 100 dps or no dps at all and uses 'I is supporting and controlling, damage meter sucks!' as an argument? He would severely weaken your party and that may cause you (and the rest of the party) to fail the encounter.

Also, there are way, way more (useful) addons than damage meter/gear score etc. Especially (from my experience with WoW) in PvP which increase req. or are just needed and don't affect the game in a bad way.

[Glytch]

@papajohn4

Why are you so against addons that ''measure skill''? I understand that things like damage meters etc. are not everything (especially not in GW2), but that doesn't mean they can't be usefull. Let's say the average dps in GW2 is 1000. And someone with only support skills is easily able to do lets say 750 dps (Anet itself said that everyone should do damage, support and control), then would you really want to play with someone who only does 100 dps or no dps at all and uses 'I is supporting and controlling, damage meter sucks!' as an argument? He would severely weaken your party and that may cause you (and the rest of the party) to fail the encounter.

Also, there are way, way more (useful) addons than damage meter/gear score etc. Especially (from my experience with WoW) in PvP which increase req. or are just needed and don't affect the game in a bad way.

i do the same thing i did in gw1, boot them and redo the encoutner, never needed a damage meter to tell who sucked

[papajohn4]

@papajohn4

Why are you so against addons that ''measure skill''? I understand that things like damage meters etc. are not everything (especially not in GW2), but that doesn't mean they can't be usefull. Let's say the average dps in GW2 is 1000. And someone with only support skills is easily able to do lets say 750 dps (Anet itself said that everyone should do damage, support and control), then would you really want to play with someone who only does 100 dps or no dps at all and uses 'I is supporting and controlling, damage meter sucks!' as an argument? He would severely weaken your party and that may cause you (and the rest of the party) to fail the encounter.

because there are no addons that can measure skills :P there are simple addons that people think that measure skills...people cannot use addons well. for example in a battle most people will ignore an important action in favor to not lose 1k dps...how many times you ve seen this? even I found myself doing this sometimes...also sometimes people must lack gear and not skill and will be excluded from groups because of this..I also hate slackers but these addons are not used to find slackers but their use is a distraction from the important part, to be strategic and have fun..

also LF 1 player for xxxxx need xx gearscore and achievement...15k dps at least or no loot... something like this..

[Deleted]

also LF 1 player for xxxxx need xx gearscore and achievement...15k dps at least or no loot... something like this..

Well, what I've understood about GW2 is that something like gearscore wouldn't make any sense since, well, only armor value increases.

And atleast in WoW requiring a minimum dps makes sense; if you're not even TRYING to contribute to the fight why should you be pampered and be handed loot? It's the only thing you're there to do anyways and if you can't do even that then you simply don't deserve pampering. Again, in GW2 the situation is different because there is no such clear-cut role for everyone and there is no such a thing as "pure DPS."

[Lucky_]

the way build optimization works in GW2 doesnt have to do with damage, your stats would really be the only thing you could change to max dps. either way it is 1) pointless and 2) destroys the feeling of the game 3) ruins the feeling of immersion and 4) turns a visceral combat system into yet another boring mmo combat system where everyone is super specialized

Not to spoil your rant, but you do understand that in high end gameplay you WILL be "super-specialized", because that will be needed to optimize the party? Lack of trinity doesn't remove the need to tailor yourself to the encounter, and GW is still the same as ever - your character changes dramatically as you choose what skills to bring. In GW1 for example, a mesmer could be full shutdown, massive burst damage and energy burn, ridiculous amount of slows and casting speed debuffs and degen, interrupter, a melee fighter that ignores armor etc. And that was just the primary profession. Secondary let him be a spike caster, a "hex the hell out of other runner and shadowstep out" assassin, and countless others. And every time you played, you tailored your 8 skills to 24/56/88 other skills present in your group.


This hasn't been removed from GW2. It's still there. You will still have to specialize your skill tree to fit whatever role you choose to play, and mending wamos (whatever their equivalent in GW2 will be) will still be the retards.



All in all, the main sufferer from lack of damage meters is the average player, who will have significantly less parties to choose from, and significantly harder time getting into organised PvP (and not getting systemically slaughtered by organised players in WvWvW). The only one who gets advantage from it is the lazy bum who wants to be carried.

[Glytch]

Not to spoil your rant, but you do understand that in high end gameplay you WILL be "super-specialized", because that will be needed to optimize the party? Lack of trinity doesn't remove the need to tailor yourself to the encounter, and GW is still the same as ever - your character changes dramatically as you choose what skills to bring. In GW1 for example, a mesmer could be full shutdown, massive burst damage and energy burn, ridiculous amount of slows and casting speed debuffs and degen, interrupter, a melee fighter that ignores armor etc. And that was just the primary profession. Secondary let him be a spike caster, a "hex the hell out of other runner and shadowstep out" assassin, and countless others. And every time you played, you tailored your 8 skills to 24/56/88 other skills present in your group.


This hasn't been removed from GW2. It's still there. You will still have to specialize your skill tree to fit whatever role you choose to play, and mending wamos (whatever their equivalent in GW2 will be) will still be the retards.



All in all, the main sufferer from lack of damage meters is the average player, who will have significantly less parties to choose from, and significantly harder time getting into organised PvP (and not getting systemically slaughtered by organised players in WvWvW). The only one who gets advantage from it is the lazy bum who wants to be carried.

aside from a certain weapon setup the utility skills wont give as much of a raw damage benefit as stacking full power/precision , the util and healing skills will be minor damage gains compared to super specializing your stats and turning you into a glass cannon (which if GW1 AI is any indication as to how they might implement GW2 AI means you die first)

[Durzlla]

Not to spoil your rant, but you do understand that in high end gameplay you WILL be "super-specialized", because that will be needed to optimize the party? Lack of trinity doesn't remove the need to tailor yourself to the encounter, and GW is still the same as ever - your character changes dramatically as you choose what skills to bring. In GW1 for example, a mesmer could be full shutdown, massive burst damage and energy burn, ridiculous amount of slows and casting speed debuffs and degen, interrupter, a melee fighter that ignores armor etc. And that was just the primary profession. Secondary let him be a spike caster, a "hex the hell out of other runner and shadowstep out" assassin, and countless others. And every time you played, you tailored your 8 skills to 24/56/88 other skills present in your group.


This hasn't been removed from GW2. It's still there. You will still have to specialize your skill tree to fit whatever role you choose to play, and mending wamos (whatever their equivalent in GW2 will be) will still be the retards.



All in all, the main sufferer from lack of damage meters is the average player, who will have significantly less parties to choose from, and significantly harder time getting into organised PvP (and not getting systemically slaughtered by organised players in WvWvW). The only one who gets advantage from it is the lazy bum who wants to be carried.

How would the lazy bum be the one who gets an advantage from it? What idiot out there can't tell "Group member X" isn't doing any damage.. you don't need a freaking meter especially when the only instanced content is 5 mans. The slacker would be a beacon of failure amongst the group, and if you can't tell who isn't pulling their weight you need to go see a doctor...

[Deleted]

I just realized that I want Addons. They'll probably not make the bags and auction windows well. Or atleast most people like it different.

[Deleted]

I just realized that I want Addons. They'll probably not make the bags and auction windows well. Or atleast most people like it different.

I personally love Bagnon in WoW: it shows all bags as just one, single frame, you can browse all of your characters' bags, and if you mouseover something it shows who has and how many of that item. And I really doubt ANet devs will implement that by default.

[Plagous]

I personally love Bagnon in WoW: it shows all bags as just one, single frame, you can browse all of your characters' bags, and if you mouseover something it shows who has and how many of that item. And I really doubt ANet devs will implement that by default.

Here, have a look at this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File..._inventory.jpg

You can see in the lower right corner that the bag interface can be resized. You can also see the header label of the 2nd bag and a scrollbar on the right side. This shows that all the bags are in one frame and each individual bag can be collapsed for easier navigation.

[Lucky_]

How would the lazy bum be the one who gets an advantage from it? What idiot out there can't tell "Group member X" isn't doing any damage.. you don't need a freaking meter especially when the only instanced content is 5 mans. The slacker would be a beacon of failure amongst the group, and if you can't tell who isn't pulling their weight you need to go see a doctor...

This is not something hypothetical, as you're presenting it. This is what happened at least THRICE in the history of original guild wars, first when they implemented grenth/balth instance (fissure of woe and underworld) that would drop ecto, then with the kurzick/luxon special zoning in cantha, and abyssal stuff in nightfall. Good players who had successful "raids" filled their party from friends list, and if one free spot was available we couldn't fill, we went with full party -1. Because taking a random player risked having someone dumb enough to break positioning for wall traps or popping spawns too early and slow us down.

We had to do this because we didn't have any tools that would enable us to tell bads apart from average players other then title rank later in game or armor they were wearing (well, sometimes we'd take a guy with decent HoH title back when it meant something to have a wolf/tiger). In this regards, damage meter would enable us to see a player who doesn't know how to play his class early enough in the instance when we're not yet committed to it, and can just leave/zone back/go again with minimal losses, instead of finding out that he's crap when harder points of instance start and we're already committed.

Average players were forced to go without any good ones, and carry a LOT of bad ones. As a result, their parties were failures in vast majority of cases, troubled by everything from clueless wamos to leavers to people who simply didn't know how the instance/their class works. Result was a LOT of whining and nerfs to instances to get it down so that a group of a few average and a few bad players could carry though.


End result: average player who could have joined the good players couldn't because we didn't have any tools to tell if he was good or not early enough in the instance before we're essentially committed to the run. Bad players got a big boost because average players were as a result forced to make their own groups, and grab a lot of bads and carry them along.


This isn't a hypothesis. This is what happened in prophecies and at least both of next expansions. I cannot speak for EotN because I quit before it came.

[papajohn4]

Lucky_ what you describe is true in every MMO but what addon can tell you if someone is bad or good?gearscore?achievements? I know a person in Lightings Blade that payed a very well known guild to run him through ICC when this came out without the buff...he payed real money and he became Kingslayer..trust me he was one of the badest players and he was also ninja looting...that was enough for him to then start pugs groups and present himself as imba player...
there wasn't many Kingslayers then and every pug wanted one to unlock lootship heroic mode. And this is an example..I know a lot of bads that have been carried in raids and they made a good gear score and a bunch of achievements and trust me you don't want them in your raid..

Also how many fights dps must kill adds or move away from fires but they are staring at dps meters and ignore mechanics because healer can heal their mistakes for example(I know gw2 there is no healing)? how many times a paladin for example could play a lot of support with hands of freedom, protection, salvation off-heals but they don't do it cause it is loss of dps..Addons is a failure and it is a failure because people depends so much at them.

Unless there is a cross realm dungeon finder, people in the same server will know its other at some point and everyone will have his reputation as it was in vanilla - wow and early TBC.

[Lusitan]

I haven't played warhammer online but can you explain what ToK was? Ireally wanna know now you mentioned it :P

also as far goes for addons just saw this thread pop up http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post13602071

it is exactly the reason I don't want them...I say again not that I am not good player or I don't use potions for damage, currently I provide potions for guildm8s also...I just don't want to get tracked by someone whatever he thinks he is...is like I don't want camera's on the roads or at my home doesn't mean I am a criminal...

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Tome_of_Knowledge

http://warhammer.gamepressure.com/

http://www.warherald.com/warherald/N...cle.war?id=758

Happy reading ^^

[papajohn4]

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Tome_of_Knowledge

http://warhammer.gamepressure.com/

http://www.warherald.com/warherald/N...cle.war?id=758

Happy reading ^^

thanks a lot :P thats awesome indeed!every MMO should have this feature for sure :P

[Merendel]

In this regards, damage meter would enable us to see a player who doesn't know how to play his class early enough in the instance when we're not yet committed to it, and can just leave/zone back/go again with minimal losses, instead of finding out that he's crap when harder points of instance start and we're already committed.

I think this will be less of an issue in GW2. The bads are more likely to be obvious fairly early on in a run. They'll either be standing back doing nothing or just spaming 1 over and over, both of which will be clearly obvious to anybody paying attention, or they will die early and often. IF we were talking 25 or 40 man instances sure it would be easy to hide in a crowd but in a 5 man its prety easy to keep an eye on only 4 other people.

[Armida]

Lucky_ what you describe is true in every MMO but what addon can tell you if someone is bad or good?gearscore?achievements? I know a person in Lightings Blade that payed a very well known guild to run him through ICC when this came out without the buff...he payed real money and he became Kingslayer..trust me he was one of the badest players and he was also ninja looting...that was enough for him to then start pugs groups and present himself as imba player...
there wasn't many Kingslayers then and every pug wanted one to unlock lootship heroic mode. And this is an example..I know a lot of bads that have been carried in raids and they made a good gear score and a bunch of achievements and trust me you don't want them in your raid..

Also how many fights dps must kill adds or move away from fires but they are staring at dps meters and ignore mechanics because healer can heal their mistakes for example(I know gw2 there is no healing)? how many times a paladin for example could play a lot of support with hands of freedom, protection, salvation off-heals but they don't do it cause it is loss of dps..Addons is a failure and it is a failure because people depends so much at them.

Unless there is a cross realm dungeon finder, people in the same server will know its other at some point and everyone will have his reputation as it was in vanilla - wow and early TBC.

This right here pretty much sums up why I do not want any addons that measures dps/gs etc. So friggin what if "elitist" players lacked the tool to separate the so called bad players from the so called good ones? That only means you have to invest a bit more time and effort getting to know a player before inv him/her to a "raid". Which again will lead to a more tight community and avoiding all of these "elitist" jerks who thinks they are in somekinda life or death depending game, if you wnat to have all these tools go back to WoW imo.

A community more like vanilla is what many people wanted and a reason why so many left. WoW as of today provides so many tools for people to be complete assholes and addons is one of those tools.

[Drashar]

I played GW through Nightfall and never had the thought to look for addons. Honestly I don't believe that GW2 is gonna be any different because DPS isn't a huge deal in GW, it's more about teamwork and being able to work as a team to down an encounter. Now with the trinity gone, everyone is technically the same role, some will play more towards one of the three but still, its really going to be up to the player to show they know how to play and by the time a lot of players in the world get to end game stuff, everyone should know at least a couple people hanging around an area.

About the only addon i can see GW2 needing is maybe a UI change addon depending if ArenaNet allows the easy movement of bars around like in GW1 or not. But really, all this stuff with GearScore, Recount/DPS meters, and other addons like them have really killed WoW for me and I hope to God that they aren't in GW2. Because honestly, GS, dps meters, etc. shouldn't be what tells you who to group with, because as a main healer in my guild I sure would rather someone have slightly lower ilvl gear and slightly less dps if they know the mechanics of a fight and can actually get out of bad stuff without dying and then blame the healers because "DPS job is to DPS, not look out for stuff."

But hey, thats just my experience and my two cents.

[Armida]

I played GW through Nightfall and never had the thought to look for addons. Honestly I don't believe that GW2 is gonna be any different because DPS isn't a huge deal in GW, it's more about teamwork and being able to work as a team to down an encounter. Now with the trinity gone, everyone is technically the same role, some will play more towards one of the three but still, its really going to be up to the player to show they know how to play and by the time a lot of players in the world get to end game stuff, everyone should know at least a couple people hanging around an area.

About the only addon i can see GW2 needing is maybe a UI change addon depending if ArenaNet allows the easy movement of bars around like in GW1 or not. But really, all this stuff with GearScore, Recount/DPS meters, and other addons like them have really killed WoW for me and I hope to God that they aren't in GW2. Because honestly, GS, dps meters, etc. shouldn't be what tells you who to group with, because as a main healer in my guild I sure would rather someone have slightly lower ilvl gear and slightly less dps if they know the mechanics of a fight and can actually get out of bad stuff without dying and then blame the healers because "DPS job is to DPS, not look out for stuff."

But hey, thats just my experience and my two cents.

Now where is that click "Like" button..

[Vlad Morbius]

But tbh, I simply do not know yet to make any kind of judgement call either way. Gotta wait until release.

Think positive, gotta wait until you get into beta!

[Mif]

I think the most important thing is for GW2 to have a full featured UI that doesn't require you to use addons.
Take WoW for example, 7 out of 10 boss mechanics are stay X feet away from Y, yet the game has no built in range finder.