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393 Arms Warrior
Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Orcneas/simple
WoL on Raiders Training Dummy for 7 mins: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ophh7flxnkgnbua1/details/13/
Simc tells me I should be doing around 30k dps on the training dummy with no buffs but I can only sustain about 28-29k. Can someone tell me what I might be doing wrong. I'm pretty sure I am doing my rotations correctly as I have practiced my rotations as close as possible to simc priority rotations, watched videos, and read the guide.
Another thing I'm not to sure about is CD usage. Ive read the guide here and it says I should be using cd's only when colossus smash is up. How many people actually do this? IS it worth not using a cd to wait for colossus smash? The only time I wait to use cd's is for Recklessness, Blood Fury, and Rotting Skull when I have 3 stacks of taste for blood up. What would be the most optimal way to use cd's in a patchwerk fight?
Another strange thing Ive noticed after replacing my 378 Rosary of Light with an 403 Eye of Unmaking is that my dps did not increase at all. It actually feels my dps went down a little. Simc says my dps should have increased by ONLY 300. Anyone know why this might be?
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2012-03-13, 03:00 AM #241Keyboard Turner
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Last edited by Orcneas; 2012-03-13 at 03:15 AM.
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2012-03-13, 07:16 AM #242DeletedYou're a machine if your in game dps is exactly what Simc says it should be. No one really hits the mark but you're very close and I'd be happy with that result
Originally Posted by Orcneas
This depends on fight length obviously. Given a 5 minute fight, you can use 2 DCs/Blood Fury and 1 Reck. Ideally, use a DC/BF in the beginning after Lambs stacks to 3 (remem to prepot). Then pop Incite after DC wears off to keep up some additional HSs at a cheaper rage cost but don't overdo them. You dont want to rage starve. Save Reck for the exec phase and make sure the stacks dont drop off. Originally Posted by Orcneas
Run your toon through www.wowreforge.com - I see you're over hit cap, and under expertise cap. Not saying this is THE reason but it can help. Originally Posted by Orcneas
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2012-03-14, 01:38 PM #243Deleted
3 things I am not sure on after reading this post.
Why does Gunth not work when you are stood near where the healer’s crystals spawn. We moved there due to the fact healing became hard when the healers had to run too far to pick them up.
My rotation is working well with MS > CS(if not up) > OP > SLAM and back to MS as it comes of CD.
So MS - Two GCDs - MS
How and when do I fit in BS as it takes up a GCD and I know it gives me 10% extra dps for 12 secs but it only seems to work for me before the pull and is a dps loss if I fit it in between a MS use.
Heroic Leap on a single target fight like Heroic Ultra? How? I keep seeing ppl say "Use HL and u will get a few hundred more dps" or I see "well done for using HL” but how do I fit it in and how does it work?
All I can think of is your doing it for rage and more HS's i.e. I leap out and charge back in whilst using BS?
Sorry if this is obvious to you guys but I’ve been playing Prot since vanilla and only just changed to ARMS. Loving it though
Will post logs when I feel I am getting it right to see where I’m getting it wrong.
Thanks in advance.
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2012-03-14, 07:18 PM #244Mechagnome
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Gurth doesn't work cause the tentacles are "somehow" out of range of the boss if you stand too far away.
You replace a slam with a shout, the extra rage will allow for more HS which will make up the damage lost from slam.
HL is off the gcd so you can keep using your rotation while using it, jump from one edge of the hitbox to the other end or for ultraxion just jump from left/right or back/front while keeping in melee range.
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2012-03-18, 10:57 AM #245The Lightbringer
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Big-ass post, some of these already had answers. Work just piles up when I'm having fun with all those new RPG titles :[
MS could still see a small improvement. Originally Posted by exblithion
Slam/HS/OP looks pretty good.
No Heroic Leap used.
You overwrote your 4t13 proc with a manual CS a few times. In addition, you didn't use a few of your sudden death procs.
Use of DC/Reck/Pot looks good, if you're just a bit faster in the start you could fit the whole reck in that pre-pot. Also, since the fight is not 5 minutes long you should save Reck for the Execute phase. If you had an ICD timer you could have seen that Creche was about to proc and then delay you second DC a little to sync up with it. Although that may have caused the last one to line up less ideal, it's hard to plan around procs sometimes.
There's a big gap in the use of Berserker Rage and IR but I'm thinking that might be because the person logging phased out right before you used it.
The damage from the Sword was roughly half of the average contribution (which is ~8%). If you were standing in the right place then you were simply unlucky in that regard.
As an FYI I'll be looking at your Warlord kill because looking at attempts is not a very good way to analyze performance imo. Originally Posted by Jackuli
Your MS count is very low. Pre-Execute you use MS once every 7.75 seconds. This number should be as close to 4.5 as humanly possible. (sub 5s is very doable even with 200+ ms)
Same goes for OP, OP should usually be somewhere in between every 6-7s, you used it every ~10s. You need to make sure all the procs are used (but without delaying MS)
Slam is also low, but not as much as the other two.
You're overwriting quite a lot of your 4t13 procs.
In the end, your executioner stacks fell off.
Your Rend fell off in the middle of the fight, this should never, ever happen.
You're using Bladestorm, don't use it if there isn't more than one target to hit.
Also, Sweeping Strikes seems to be macroed into Bladestorm, this is a bad idea in general. If possible you want to use them separately.
Cooldown use could see some major improvement as well. Deadly Calm is only used once. Recklessness should be used towards the end (especially on Warlord since he takes more damage in the end) if you can't use it twice.
Berserker Rage can be used a lot more.
You didn't use Inner Rage at all. If you don't use it your 2t13 bonus is useless.
Overall the major problem is that you're not using your main damage abilities enough. Cooldown use needs work but that is secondary to solving the first issue.
Yay, an lfr ultraxion log (I love these) Originally Posted by Requiel
Whether you skip OP or not depends on how much rage you have. If you can do it without losing rage due to swapping stances then go ahead, otherwise skip it.
Ability usage is good. That's not to say it can't be improved still (things can always be better!) but it's good.
What you can do is practice fitting Heroic Leap between GCDs (since it's off the GCD and free) to get some extra dps. You want to use Heroic Leap when Colossus Smash is on the target for maximum effect.
Cooldown usage could see some work though.
The first thing is that if you're only going to use Recklessness once (which is pretty much a given in LFR) you want to use it during the Execute phase. Subsequently if you're only going to use one potion that should be during the Reck that you saved for the Execute phase.
It's hard to say what you're doing wrong if you don't provide a log to look at (LFR Ultraxion is ideal) Originally Posted by Bamboozled
With that said the first thing you should do is have a look at http://www.wowreforge.com to optimize reforges (just make sure to set desired expertise to 691 since you're a human using a sword).
If your dps is referring to an Ultraxion style encounter you should be doing closer to maybe 33-34k or so. Why your dps is low is impossible to say without actual logs.
Right now he is Fury on the armory so I can't really comment on anything there but judging from his gear he should be able to do more than the 40k dps shown in the log. Originally Posted by BDF
He is not using MS and Slam enough. He is using Heroic Strike too much. (Slam being low and HS being high in this fashion typically means that the player is putting a higher prio on HS than Slam, this is wrong)
He is using Bladestorm on single target, this is wrong. He is also using Sweeping Strikes but I assume he has it glyphed so it's not like it matters.
He doesn't seem to be specced for Executioner for some reason.
Cooldown use is not very good. Should be able to use DC/Trinket three times in the fight, he used it twice.
Second potion should be lined up with his Recklessness.
Berserker Rage could be used more.
Also, because of his Heroic Strike happy strategy he should DEFINITELY use Inner Rage more.
If you were to just mention one thing though it would be the MS/Slam/HS thing.
Bloodthirst is not used often enough. It should with few exceptions be every other global outside Execute range. Originally Posted by KrakinTauren
Sometimes your Colossus Smash seems to be off cooldown for quite a long time before you actually use it.
I am admittedly not all that into Fury but these are the two first things I'd work on in your case.
Also, I feel like you should have been able to fit Reck twice in that Ultraxion fight.
When you sim in SimC make sure to set the Fight Style to Ultraxion in the Global Settings. Originally Posted by cRawmode
That said MS/OP usage looks good. Slam looks slightly low.
Should be able to fit both DC and Reck into the pre-pot duration.
You only used Blood Fury and Deadly Calm twice, should be three times.
As mentioned, Executioner fell off.
You only used one potion, if you're pre-potting anyway I see no reason not to use another one at the end unless you ran out of pots.
Overall good, minor things to work with.
If this happens and you have the rage to support it you just fill that 1.25s gap with another Slam. It is better to delay MS by 0.25s once than it is to leave it open. Originally Posted by cRawmode
If the fight was EXACTLY 7 minutes long then you're not using MS enough. Every 5.75s is not enough. Aim for every 5s at least. (This really makes a difference in dps) Originally Posted by Orcneas
You should wait for Colossus Smash but only if this doesn't mean that you get less uses of your CDs over the course of the whole fight.
Optimal use in a 6 min fight as an orc is to pre-pot then use DC when the pot has 22 seconds left (because otherwise you won't fit Reck into the pre-pot duration). When DC has 3 seconds remaining you use the Orc Racial. When DC ends you use Inner Rage and Recklessness. Use DC at some point between 2-3 minutes after you use the first one, time it with procs/on-use if possible (this means the orc racial too). When you get to the Execute phase use your second potion along with DC. When DC has 3 seconds left, use Blood Fury. When DC ends, use Recklessness. If you have enough rage to use HS while Executing then also use Inner Rage.
Optimal CD use revolves around the length of the fight, it is not really possible to provide optimal use without tailoring it around a specific length.
In a 5 min fight you can use DC/BF three times, not two. Originally Posted by Heirak
First use a few seconds in, second one at 2 mins and a few seconds, third at 4 minutes and a few seconds.
Just a suggestion here. When you look at the use of MS then select a section of the fight that excludes the Execute phase. Pre-Execute a good number is anything below 5s. Anything above 5s is bad. Originally Posted by Heirak
Last edited by Siri; 2012-03-18 at 11:46 AM.
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2012-03-18, 01:03 PM #246High Overlord
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Thank you so far Lohe, very enlightening
Just one (hope it's not too OFC): How can you read all those things out of WOL like how long the average time between usage of MS is, or how long CS stayed off cooldown and is wasted, usage of sudden death proccs. Hope you get what I mean? I can read WOL but some informations I'd love to get but don't know how.
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2012-03-18, 02:04 PM #247The Lightbringer
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First I exclude the Execute portion of the fight because during the Execute phase MS will not always have the highest priority, depends on what Execute strategy people use for instance. Originally Posted by cRawmode
Thank you so far Lohe, very enlightening
Just one (hope it's not too OFC): How can you read all those things out of WOL like how long the average time between usage of MS is, or how long CS stayed off cooldown and is wasted, usage of sudden death proccs. Hope you get what I mean? I can read WOL but some informations I'd love to get but don't know how.
You just select a time by holding down the left mouse button and dragging to select an area like this:
Then right click and click "Set page to selection"
After that you go to the details page for the person you want to check.
My address field now looks like this:
You take the number in red and subtract the number in green to get total duration of the segment. In this case 250 seconds.
(You can also edit these numbers instead of selecting segment with the graph)
Take the total length and divide it by the amount of times the ability was used and you have the frequency of MS usage, OP usage and such.
To evaluate CS usage there's two things you can/want to do and it differs a bit based on spec.
For Fury you can simply take the fight length and divide that by the amount of times CS was used. This number should be as close to 20 as possible (usually more like 21 because that's evenly divisible by 1.5)
For Arms (you also want to do this for Fury) go to the "Buffs Cast" tab and click the # next to Colossus Smash in the debuff column, if you have 4t13 there will be two CS entries and you need to click it for both. One is for the proc and one is for the manual cast. Here you can see if the proc debuff was cut short by a manual CS (or the other way around so make sure you know which is which). For Arms you also want to click # next to Sudden Death in the Buffs column to see if you used the CS proc as soon as you could have. You can also see if some gaps are abnormally large here.
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2012-03-18, 02:23 PM #248High Overlord
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OK that one was really really helpful! Thank you so much.
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2012-03-18, 11:32 PM #249Mechagnome
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thanks for the input Lohe and others, I've done another LFR ultraxion to see if i could improve after what you have said. i have saved reck till the end and tried a new execute phase (using ms to keep rend up). so here is another log if you don't mind looking over it www worldoflogs com/reports/3l1nwxq6lzs8k96x/details/8/?s=328&e=585 ( still cant post links
) any help would be appreciated as i still want to do better.
thanks
also I was wondering when ever I sim overpower keeps coming up as the my number one move for damage.Last edited by Requiel; 2012-03-18 at 11:37 PM.
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2012-03-19, 09:46 AM #250DeletedIsn't it so that Execute replaces Slam in the rotation during the sub 20% phase? If that's the case, why would you neglect MS in any way? Or is it that at certain rage levels ( i want to say 30 but have no math for proof (secretly hoping you do :P)) it is an increase in DPS using Exec over MS?Just a suggestion here. When you look at the use of MS then select a section of the fight that excludes the Execute phase. Pre-Execute a good number is anything below 5s. Anything above 5s is bad.
---------- Post added 2012-03-19 at 11:49 AM ----------
TYVM! Fantastic info! Originally Posted by Lohe
First I exclude the Execute portion of the fight because during the Execute phase MS will not always have the highest priority, depends on what Execute strategy people use for instance.
You just select a time by holding down the left mouse button and dragging to select an area like this:
Then right click and click "Set page to selection"
After that you go to the details page for the person you want to check.
My address field now looks like this:
You take the number in red and subtract the number in green to get total duration of the segment. In this case 250 seconds.
(You can also edit these numbers instead of selecting segment with the graph)
Take the total length and divide it by the amount of times the ability was used and you have the frequency of MS usage, OP usage and such.
To evaluate CS usage there's two things you can/want to do and it differs a bit based on spec.
For Fury you can simply take the fight length and divide that by the amount of times CS was used. This number should be as close to 20 as possible (usually more like 21 because that's evenly divisible by 1.5)
For Arms (you also want to do this for Fury) go to the "Buffs Cast" tab and click the # next to Colossus Smash in the debuff column, if you have 4t13 there will be two CS entries and you need to click it for both. One is for the proc and one is for the manual cast. Here you can see if the proc debuff was cut short by a manual CS (or the other way around so make sure you know which is which). For Arms you also want to click # next to Sudden Death in the Buffs column to see if you used the CS proc as soon as you could have. You can also see if some gaps are abnormally large here.
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2012-03-19, 12:16 PM #251The Lightbringer
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The Execute priority is... messy, to use a nice word. Originally Posted by Heirak
Basically Colossus Smash takes highest priority, even over MS. (Assuming the debuff isn't active, obviously)
MS is used to make sure that neither Rend nor LttS falls off, it is used if Wrecking Crew is not active, it is also used if rage is below 25 or above 35.
If you can use Overpower without losing rage due to stance swapping, then use OP.
If you can't use OP without losing rage, use Execute.
Basically this means that sometimes Execute will be higher than MS and sometimes it won't.
This affects the ideal usage and that's why I never include the Execute range when I look at how often MS/Slam/OP is used.
There is also the advanced CS strategy that lets you fit 4 abilities in one CS and if you want to do that you have to delay MS by at least one global.
Sub-20% is such a mess
Edit: You can also do what you said. Truth be told the different strategies do not matter that much in terms of dps in the end.Last edited by Siri; 2012-03-19 at 02:43 PM.
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2012-03-22, 10:00 PM #252High Overlord
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So I did raid today and it was Ultraxion time again. Obviously I did way better than the last time though I just replaced 2 items. As I know I did better but I'm far away from being perfect, would you mind to look at the last WOL file and show me my flaws Lohe? Or the others?
Here we go:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-01...?s=7048&e=7401
Thank you very much in advance.
Best
cRawmode
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2012-03-23, 10:09 AM #253Pandaren Monk
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I need a opinion from you guys. I havent played Arms in ages and have been away from the game since DS came out. Having come back for some random action i decided to try out arms since ev1 says it's the top dps spec atm.
Now the question is, looking at the gear i have on my armory, and without going into much detail, would you consider that a average of 35k ish on Hc Dungeon bosses is aceptable with my gear or i should be pulling more?
You can check out my gear on the link in my sig.
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2012-03-24, 02:19 PM #254The Lightbringer
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Gladly. Originally Posted by cRawmode
Use of MS, OP and CS looks good (maybe a little slow on reapplying CS after it fell off if you got a sudden death proc (this happens like twice) but it's no big deal at all). Slam use looks a little low, probably a result of being too aggressive with HS.
You're using Heroic Leap properly but you could have used it more often than you did.
For the cooldowns part I figured that maybe a picture would give a better idea of what needs to be done!
For this ~6 minute fight, this is what your cooldown usage looks like:
And this is what you should be shooting for:
If you feel you want a written explanation in addition to the pictures, just ask.
It's impossible to make that kind of call because dps, especially in 5mans, is just insanely dependent on your group. Not only what buffs you get but also how good dps everyone else is doing. Having a 100% uptime on Bloodlust because the boss died in 40 seconds compared to having a 33% uptime because the boss died in 2 minutes is just a huge difference. Originally Posted by voidillusion
In addition to that you're logged out in Protection gear. If you log out in Arms gear I can give you an idea of what you should be able to do self buffed on a boss dummy but giving an idea of what you should be able to do in a 5man is not really a guess that is going to help anyone
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2012-03-30, 05:40 AM #255The Patient
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Hi, I am a long time reader of the warrior forums here at mmo-champ, but never took the time to create an account until now. I just cannot seem to get the advice that I see being given here in the blizzard forums, so here we go:
My guild just recently started working on H Ultra. We are a 25m guild and I have killed it before in 10m, but we still haven't killed him in 25. In simcraft for ultrax I measure out at 47k dps, and there was one attempt on ultra where i did 46.9k which in my mind is close enough to simcraft to be acceptable. However the rest of the night i was in the 36-42k range.
Armory: us battle net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Grommash/advanced (had to remove periods in links because first post :/
Attempts on H Ultra: www worldoflogs com/reports/rt-xm9lp6nvp4ajcx5i/sum/damageDone/?s=5228&e=5424 The specific attempt that link is on is my best of the night
I do not have a log of normal kills, because I offtank on our normal kills. We have a spriest come on his tank for heroic ultra attempts because my dps single target is much higher than his.
I do have a 397 creche but i use 397 fetish because it seems to net me 1-2k dps more when I beat on dummies (for about 5 mins) as compared to creche. Is creche better single target?
How long should I delay heroic leap to put it in a CS?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I hate losing on a fight where everyone knows i should be top. It's humiliating and makes me feel like a failure.
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2012-03-30, 10:22 AM #256The Lightbringer
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You should consider running LFR once. Just queue up with a healer friend and kill Ultraxion, it should be pretty quick. Originally Posted by Grumash
If you do this then don't use Heroic Will.
Yes, Creche is better single target. If the proc isn't wasted it is better than both EoU and BLF. Originally Posted by Grumash
BLF vs EoU is a closer matter. It changes individually but they're usually very close to each other. (don't trust SimC with BLF)
As long as it takes, which couldn't possibly be more than ~15 seconds. Originally Posted by Grumash
All that said, ability usage looks ok on Warlord. (checked this because it's a kill on a pure tank&spank fight)
My usual guideline is that if MS is used less than every 5 seconds, it's bad.
If it is used more often than every 5 seconds, it's good.
You are using it EXACTLY every 5 seconds in the segment I was checking.
OP/Slam usage looks to be where it should be.
On Ultraxion however it doesn't look as good. This is usually one of two things:
1. You're paying additional attention to mechanics since it's a new fight.
2. It can also be because you're not the person logging which means that if the other person is phased out and you're not he won't log your ability usage.
Cooldown usage is fairly crap to look at at non-kills so I'll only comment on Warlord.
Your second set of dc/fury is not synced with the potion. Just a couple of post above this one
I posted an image with what cd usage should look like during a 6 minute fight, the very end there still applies to Warlord.
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2012-04-03, 02:36 AM #257The Patient
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Sorry about the delay, I was just able to log a LFR ultrax where I ate the hours and I am the logger, which might improve abilities showing up.
www worldoflogs com/reports/rt-baoc11gvre004n8y/sum/damageDone/?s=470&e=715 (once again I have to remove periods from hyperlink, how many posts until i can use links?)
This is the log i just did, Seems that your advice helped me out. I also switched to creche on this one. The fight before it i only did about 39.5k however (forgot to type /combatlog in wow, still new to logging >.> ). Really the only difference between the one i logged and the one i didnt was i used deadly calm on cooldown when it came up, and discovered the fight wasnt long enough for 3 uses much to my chagrin, and so for the logged attempt, i sat on deadly calm after it came up for my second pot/reck/bloodfury etc. The cooldown stacking post you had earlier was very helpfull. How do you get WoL to display that? I thought it might be in the expression editor, but typing a code to display what you had was beyond me. If you could tell me how you do that too i would be eternally grateful
Sorry for wall of textLast edited by Grumash; 2012-04-03 at 03:05 AM.
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2012-04-03, 11:35 AM #258Blademaster
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Need help with my trinkets,question is should i use creche+eye from lfr or creche+rotting skull for extra crit,testing on dummy shows similar results,and is it visage of petrification good due my current stats gear etc this is my first thread ever here so i cant link my armory but character name is also Zrno server Auchindoun.
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2012-04-04, 03:06 AM #259Grunt
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Arms 2H
403 Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps? Mindflay.
OR
410 Experimental Specimen Slicer?
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2012-04-04, 05:26 AM #260Titan
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You mean like this ? Originally Posted by Grumash
Just click your name, get to the Buffs gained tab and click on the # behind the buff you want it to show.
Gurh for everything except spine heroic. Originally Posted by reboundlol
Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-04-04 at 05:31 AM.
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