Firelands Normal Raiding

[Martyn 470]

So i'll cut this short

Im Gm of a Guild, we have 300 + people, as a casual raiding guild and social guild, over 100 level 85s, but whenever I make an invite for firelands ( we're trying to get into raiding), I only ever get 7-8 people signing, and the rest dont decline or accept, so I have to pug.


So we started Firelands 4 weeks ago, we do it every saturday 20:00-23:00, but the problem is, we cant down anything other than shannox, and I dont see why not, Ive personally done firelands, but the guild just dosent seem capable, we can do BWD and BOT easily, but We cant down even Beth'tilac, it just seems the adds overwhelm us, I Keep trying new tactics to try and get the very nerfed content down, but to no avail, this week i've went back to having 1 melee dps and 1 ranged dps assigned to the drones, while the other two ranged dps handle the Spiderlings and spinners, but it just seems that we have trouble doing even this, the 3 people that go up to Beth'tilac are me ,a holy priest, and a Frost Dk, we handle it easily, but the dps down the bottom cant down the adds quick enough and take too much damage overall

Are there any special tips we can use? I mean I can pug this stuff, but the guild just seems unable to down it at all


Thanks

Martyn.

[Deleted]

Make your hunter spec entrapment + Rapid Killing + Concussive Barrage + Trap mastery + bombardment.
Pop Snake Trap first on all the spiders, only use Frost as an emergency when they need to be slowed. Then just do one Multi-shot -> Spam SS on one of the spiderlings to single target kill it -> Multi-shot kill them all while getting free focus from Rapid Killing.

How do you handle the adds, excactly? Do the people taking it have a dedicated healer?
EDIT: oh, what classes are taking the adds?

[Martyn 470]

Frost dk, mage and Prot pally on drones, Warlock and shadow priest on the spiderlings and spinners, we dont have a hunter unfortunately :/

[Deleted]

...what?
Make the frost DK and mage go on spiderlings, and lock, priest and pally on drones + spinners.

[Herecius]

Frost dk, mage and Prot pally on drones, Warlock and shadow priest on the spiderlings and spinners, we dont have a hunter unfortunately :/

Frost DK with 2/2 Chillblains is the way to go then. Everybody who is on the bottom should nuke Spinners first, the Frost DK should have no problem soloing the spiderlings totally on his own. Only when the spinners are dead should the other DPS switch to nuke the drone. As it's normal mode, and there's no broodlings making slow/aoe puddles everywhere to make things difficult for the Frost DK, it should be extremely easy for him to solo them. Just howling blast/frost strike until they all die.

[Zheryn]

Post some logs please.

[Dylicious]

Other than suggesting that they watch the fights beforehand, you may have just reached a skill cap in those people. If they can't break through the 'plateau', like not standing in fire or making corrections to their rotations, your DPS is just going to hold you back. Specifically for Beth'tilac, if your healers are capable enough, you should be able to two heal the fight. We did this on normal before the nerfs, making the adds trivial, and now we have so much idle time on the bottom level that we can send more DPS up to kill Beth even faster.

As an officer in my current (very casual) guild, the same frustrates me as we've cleared normal Firelands, but just can't make that step into heroic mode with only 3 or 4 really exceptional players. We're experiencing the burn out now, with people just not showing up at all or leaving mid-raid, since they just don't feel like raiding any longer. Depending on your guild, you may have some recruiting to do. I know I do.

EDIT:

...what?
Make the frost DK and mage go on spiderlings, and lock, priest and pally on drones + spinners.

This. A good DK with chillblains should be able to devastate the spiderlings, and the prot pally can taunt down the spinners while tanking the drone (drone really does not hit hard at all, especially with good magic damage reduction timing for the vomit)

[absynthe7]

I'm in a similar situation with my guild, though we haven't been at it for as long. Adds are the main weak spot of our raid team for some reason, but we excel at burn phases, so we switched up the strat a little bit. We send zero DPS up during Phase 1 - only a tank and healer. Post-nerf, even her max health is low enough that burning her down entirely in P2 is possible. This will, at the very least, allow your raid team to start seeing P2 and get some confidence-boosting successes on P1. If you can't quite pump out enough damage to drop her this way, split the difference - send a DPS up before the first Smoldering Devestation, then have him stay below after that once the adds start getting out of hand.

It worked for us, anyway. Good luck!

[stuntz]

I play a frost dk in our alt run - 6/7 heroic currently. Not too bad for 2hrs of a single night raiding.

Anyway...

On beth, as a frost dk, I have a chilblains spec for it, and my job is basically to solo the spiderlings and play goalie on those broodlings. I don't have much trouble with the adds solo at all. If I get unfortunate enough to have adds spawn from the same location 3 times running, those broodling poison pools really stack up, then I'll call for some help from a caster to zerg down spiderlings.

On normal it's a cake walk for a frost dk to solo.

Edit: I'll expand on this a little.

Main Run:
Spiderlings/Broodlings: MM hunter
Drones/Spinners: Prot Paladin / Ele shaman / Boomkin
Healer: Resto druid / Disc Priest
Up top:
Tank: Feral
Healer: Holy Paladin
Dps: Combat rogue / Arcane Mage.

Alt Run:
Spiderlings/Broodlings: Frost dk (chilblains spec)
Drones/Spinners: Feral Druid (tank) / Shadow Priest / Demo Lock
Healer: Resto Druid / Resto Shaman
Up top:
Tank: Prot Warrior
Healer: Holy Paladin
Dps: Arcane Mage x2

Both goalies have ranged aoe'ers to back them up when needed (main: boomkin, alt: demo lock/spriest). Nothing much else to say there.

[drjonz]

My guild could down her doing it with a dps going up. We switched it up and put myself (prot warrior) and a fury warrior on the drones, hunter and lock on the dangling ones, and a frost dk and feral druid on the spiderlings. This was done before nerf and seems to be the only thing that worked for us. Hope it helps and you guys see some purples soon.

[Arcrin]

make your guild a money-maker and join some other raid guild.


Your members are hopeless sir.

[Deleted]

Have your DK spec chillblains. Firs lot of adds he will have aggro so get him to drop a D&D and kite the spiderlings around it, also he should use Empower rune weapon here on your first attempts to help get the first set down quickly.

On the rest of the spiderlings a combination of HB and Frost strike (to proc runic empowerment) should allow him to take them down quickly.

For the spinners have the range take them down as a priority, any class with a taunt like ability will be able to get them to drop from the webs which means they will do less raid damage. After the spinners are under control then you can nuke the drone.

thats the best advice i can give to a new group on Beth'tilac.

Good luck guys, hope you get a kill soon

[announced]

if ur guildies cant put enough dps out to help u kill beth ... time to join a different guild. turn urs into a money maker and split the difference.. ur guildies are hopeless.

[onlyindweebs]

We were having the same problems in our guild, but have finally started progressing a little. We always start out with a new boss (if we can, of course) then go back to our farm bosses so everyone's fresh.

For Beth, the only thing that worked for us was having everyone stay down and the healers just heal through the AoE, wasn't too bad.

We also had to crack down on everyone in the dps really familiarizing themselves with the fight, setting solid strong beginning/end times so we were starting to becoming a little more rigid and less casual. This kind of whips everyone into their game mode, rather than sitting back and not giving it their all.

[crescentfresh1]

If you can't get past 10 man REGULAR Shannox POST NERF then your guildies are hopeless, go join another guild that isn't comprised of autistic monkeys.

<Infracted>

[Perished]

If you can't get past 10 man REGULAR Shannox POST NERF then your guildies are hopeless, go join another guild that isn't comprised of autistic monkeys.

Why dont you post something constructive and try to help them?

OT: I would recommend putting the Frost DK/Mage on the spiderlings, might work a little better.

[crescentfresh1]

Why dont you post something constructive and try to help them?

OT: I would recommend putting the Frost DK/Mage on the spiderlings, might work a little better.

Because they're obviously beyond help

Infracted - Wilderness

[Bluesparks75]

Sometimes players really need their hands held during encounters.

You say you go up top on Beth, I would suggest you stay down and keep everyone focused on vent. If you are getting overwhelmed with adds it could simply be people don't know what adds they should focus on so dps gets spread out to everything, instead of focusing down the adds.

For example when the fights starts, Spinners are the first things to spawn. Say on vent: "lets get those spinners down", then when the first spiderlings spawn say "alright spiderlings have spawned, player A and player B go and aoe nuke them down, everyone else stay on spinners," when the first drone spawns say "okay drone is up, everyone finish off the spinners before you switch to drone," then when spiderlings spawn during the drone say "oh spiderlings are up, Player A and Player B go aoe nuke them down and then get back on the drone"

Something like that. I know that sounds odd but it really does work.

[Deadlybonne]

The spinners the ones in the air do alot of damage if not taunted down, im sure thats the reason of your fail, and also offcourse the acid rain when they appear.

This is easy if u have tauntclasses. The tank that goes up needs to taunt 2 down for him and healer. if u have a dps dk or other classes that can taunt, they should taunt the ones in the air as they do less damage on the ground.

easiest way to handle this is to have a warrior tank downstairs, because his cd is resetted if he puts vigilance on other tank, so he can taunt all the time. Taunting the adds down fast, really lowers the damage quickly till the next wave. The more people u have that can taunt, easier it is downstairs.

Best way to split your dps, is to have 1 melee on the drone, 1 ranged on the spinners in the air, 1 hunter for the small spiderlings + 1 extra ranged that nukes spinners or spiderlings depending whats needed.

Download addon like hermet that shows raid cooldowns, that way a good raidleader can call out for a raidcd during the heavy damage fases when all the spinners come out. U should use healing cooldowns like aura mastery, tranquility, rally cry, divine guardian,.. and other healing cd each fase.

Its a nasty fight because tauntclasses can help u with gaining dps as its faster to cleave spinners on the ground then nuking them in the air. Also a good hunter that can solo the small adds frees up 1 dps to help out with drone or spinners.

The best classes for this fight are warrior tank and a good hunter. This combo makes it easy, without it, u gonna have to do more dps and healing . Without a hunter and weak dps your doomed, this fight is made for hunter hehe Unless u got pro other aoe class

[deviancee]

I find it amusing that you ask for "special" tactics (for "special" people, huh?) instead of doing obvious - improving their dps, since its obviously main problem. It will be easier and profitable in the long run