Why do raids groups never need tanks?

[paperfire]

I have orginally played a mage, but with the CTA feature and the allure of instant queues, I decided to reroll a prot pally. Upon reaching level 85, I have enjoyed the instant queues but I am having big problems getting into raids. Nobody out there is looking for tanks, they just need healers or dps. Guild recruitment is the same thing, nobody needs tanks.

I know that there is massive shortage of tanks in the LFD queues. However, at least on my server Mal'ganis Horde, the raids recruiting are almost never asking for tanks. Why is there a massive shortage of tanks for 5 mans, but not for raids?

I like tanking, and would be a tank if I could, but raids never need them. So why bother?

[Contravene]

Yeah big shocker huh? I thought the same thing but it isn't true that there is a shortage of tanks just try typing /who <guild name> you will see people are running 5 mans and tanks are on. So I of course sum it up to my own feelings on pug groups. I guess if I couldn't find anyone on in my own guild and none of our friendly guilds either then in the end I will pug for my 70 VP.. For the Epic I am working on I will do it last resort once per day. That is your shortage of tanks we don't like PUG dps it is NEVER good DPS, never.

[Umlüx]

its only natural and bad encounter design (again) you need 1 tank on 5 mans but only 2 on 25 man raids. to maintain a stable class distribution, blizzard would have to design 5 tank raidbosses

[Rivin]

Because you only need two or three tanks for a raid, and those slots are generally given to trusted guild members (who have usually been tanking for a while). On the other hand, you need twice as many healers and even more dps, so those slots are a little more flexible or (sometimes) harder to fill.

[Deleted]

This is the prime issue of the "tank shortage" problem - after they're done with heroics, they've got nothing to do for the most part.

The amount of tanks needed in a guild is comparatively way smaller than any other role, and while you may swap healers and dps like socks, tanks usually tend to stay - most of the time, in established guilds, tank setup lasts for years, they're more often than not founding members, and plenty of times - guilds are made by a tank with a few healers friends and they go from there, one of the healers knows a good tank as well, and after you get a 3rd one, well, you're set for a 25 man guild.

The same goes for most pugs - a small team of tanks and healers that know each other and know they won't fuck up, bands up and starts lfg'n for the remaining healers and dps.

Until raid content won't require 5-6 tanks per fight, the need for endgame tanks will be low. My advice would be to work on a bit of social networking, try to get in contact with people, pick the ones you can trust and start running your own stuff. Who knows, you may get a thing going there, but idling infront Org's ah won't net you a positive experience at all.

[Shamanberry]

It's because there are only so many slots for tanks in a raid group. Usually 2 "main" tanks and 1-3 "backup" tanks depending on group size.

If a guild is functional and actively raiding, it necessarily means they already have tanks - so naturally they wouldn't be recruiting them. The only real way to get in a raid guild as a tank is to find one that recently lost a "main" tank and is currently using a "backup" as filler until they recruit a new one.

[shokter]

Best thing to do is to develop a solid OS. Being a bit more flexible will get you into more raids which in turn will give you more experience with the fights (even if you aren't tanking) and you will be a more attractive candidate for a guild or pug to select to tank when they're in a pinch. Once you get your foot in the door, so to speak, getting into raids becomes easier.

[paperfire]

I just decided to play a healer now. Groups always need those, and queues are usually only 5 mins. I'm not jumping through hoops to raid as a tank.

[madyrn]

Yeah big shocker huh? I thought the same thing but it isn't true that there is a shortage of tanks just try typing /who <guild name> you will see people are running 5 mans and tanks are on. So I of course sum it up to my own feelings on pug groups. I guess if I couldn't find anyone on in my own guild and none of our friendly guilds either then in the end I will pug for my 70 VP.. For the Epic I am working on I will do it last resort once per day. That is your shortage of tanks we don't like PUG dps it is NEVER good DPS, never.

My rogue begs to differ. I've never been booted from a LFD for bad performance, missing interupts, etc. Not all pug dps is bad. As a dps and a tank with a prot pally I've seen all sides of that argument so don't go generalizing.

OT: Tanks aren't pugged into raids most often due to the responsibility of the job in a raid. A 5 man is fairly equal in terms of the job of each role but in a raid, the tank/tanks are most often expected to not only lead the raid and keep the flow and pace up but to also have the most depth of knowledge of the encounters. That is not a job you would want to put in the hands of some random person from trade chat and most don't.

[Keimier]

Maybe it's because there is alot of responsibility in a raid when your a tank, so groups tend to run with tanks that know the raid.

Maybe the old "tanking is easy" line IS a load of BS.....Hmmmmmm...

[Kaliara]

The only place that is lacking tanks is the dungeon finder. And it's hardly surprisingly with the treatment they get. Even on a level 15 warrior I got an insane amount of crap. Players ninja-pulling before me even after I ask them to stop, then complaining about my inability to hold aggro (I do just fine when I pull), then needing on my gear because you can need on anything in lowbie instances. It's shameful.

[BurningStick]

Maybe it's because there is alot of responsibility in a raid when your a tank, so groups tend to run with tanks that know the raid.

Maybe the old "tanking is easy" line IS a load of BS.....Hmmmmmm...

Nah, tanking isn't harder than the other roles. The problem is as others have pointed out, in dungeons 1/5 of the group is a tank, but in 25 man raids you only need 2-3 tank out of 25 persons. This cause quite a few problems.

[Deleted]

I think most guilds are rather picky about their tanks tbh - I know we are. Have declined several tanks applying, simply due to lack of experience, lack of knowledge about their class and lack of gear. From my own experience, there's a lot of tanks running around but they fall into the "casual" category. Casual in this case meaning, that they haven't really raided in Cata, they have dungeon gear and haven't grinded all rep gear.

So while you may not see guilds recruiting tanks, I'm pretty sure that most guilds would be willing to accept extraordinary apps from extraordinary tanks.

Edit: Sometimes a good unsolicited app can be worth a shot.

[Aundas]

Tanks often take the roll of leader in groups, and in my experience at least they tend to assume leadership in guilds. Maybe others have had different experience but both of the serious raiding guilds I've been in the tanks have been the guildmasters. I'm just assuming that's why guilds are never looking to recruit tanks.

[SilkforCalde]

I have orginally played a mage, but with the CTA feature and the allure of instant queues, I decided to reroll a prot pally. Upon reaching level 85, I have enjoyed the instant queues but I am having big problems getting into raids. Nobody out there is looking for tanks, they just need healers or dps. Guild recruitment is the same thing, nobody needs tanks.

I know that there is massive shortage of tanks in the LFD queues. However, at least on my server Mal'ganis Horde, the raids recruiting are almost never asking for tanks. Why is there a massive shortage of tanks for 5 mans, but not for raids?

I like tanking, and would be a tank if I could, but raids never need them. So why bother?

The tank spot in a raid is the most fiercely competed spot because there are the least amount of spots for tanks. In a 10 man it's not so bad. 2 tanks out of 10 players is 20%. In a 25 man, it's much worse. 2 tanks out of 25 players is only 8%. Whereas DPS for a 10 man is 5 / 10 which is 50% and DPS for a 25 man is usually something like 17 or 18 / 25 which is around 70%.

It shouldn't be that hard for you to find a spot in a 10 man raiding guild. Certainly not as hard as getting a melee dps spot. In a 25 man guild, it will switch. It will be considerably easier to find a spot as melee dps than as a tank.

[Blacknite]

Tank is the least needed role in raids. As a guild master and MT myself over the years, i've learned that there are MANY bad tanks out there.
I took over the role after replacing more than 8 tanks in Sunwell because of M'uru and Since then we have replaced only 2 other tanks on our 25 man roster.

When the 25 mans only need 2 or 3 tanks, that role is harder to fill and like someone said usually it's filled by long term and trusted guildies.
All 3 of our main tanks, and 2 of our back up tanks are all 1-6 year+ in guild players. and only one of those is under almost 3 years in guild.

[SilkforCalde]

its only natural and bad encounter design (again) you need 1 tank on 5 mans but only 2 on 25 man raids. to maintain a stable class distribution, blizzard would have to design 5 tank raidbosses

5 tank raid bosses would restrict possible boss mechanics to an incredible extent. It would certainly make the game more boring.

The more obvious solution is to make it so you don't need a tank for 5 mans.

[tibben]

Because many pugs are set up by a group of friends who refuse to pug content without tanks that they believe know what they are doing. Therefore they will not even advertise that they are trying to pug something until they have 2 competent tanks so they have a slightly higher chance of success. If you want to gear a tank in raids find a guild that has an alt run that will take you in.

As far as 2 tanks for 25 man content, there are a couple of bosses that even in 25 man only require 1 tank. Of course, no 25 man guild would only have 1 tank, but there are definitely no encounters that require more than 3 (some people did use a 4 tank strat on Heroic Halfus for their first kill) and there really haven't been any fights that required or were made easier by 4 tanks since BC.

The other thing to realize is that if a DPS screws up he probably gets himself killed, the raid can most likely continue without him. If the tank screws up it can range from putting extra pressure on the healers, to killing a couple DPS because the boss was turned wrong, to getting himself killed and most likely wiping the whole raid. While tanking may not be more challenging than other positions, the consequences of failing to do your task as a tank are typically more severe than if a dps messes up. That's why people want a knowledgeable tank and not a random dude from trade chat.

[SilkforCalde]

Something I find funny about this thread is that I've never had a problem pugging my tank alts. My problem is pugging my melee dps because I'm always forced to tank on them after the tanks we pug fail.

[gamma Ray]

There are a TON of tanks, just like there are a ton of everything else.

You have to prove that you are good, then you'll be beating people with a stick to stop trying to get you. I used to recruit tanks though dungeons before the LFG system came into being. If the tank sucked, well I never talked to them again, if they were good, I put them on my friends list and tried to get them to join my guild.