Then they need to come up with a new forced mechanic penalty to keep up your Bomb as Fire.
Also, Pyromaniac is nowhere near as bad as FB. FB = 3, immobile, casts. Pyro = An instant-cast DoT you should be applying to a new target instantly.
Oh I know :P
Still wondering why I play this game.
I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.
Thats a good start, but mastery is either have to be buffed to 3% per point or frostbolt should scale better with haste. Glyph is a nice and very simple idea, and probably wont hurt anyone in PVP as casting something for 3 seconds or so would be very dangerous (and it wont be hitting harder than CB without frostburn anyway)
Latest patch notes state the Mastery base is increased from 12 to 14%, bumped storage time from 15 seconds to 30 seconds on Icicles, increases WE WB damage by 14% (WE WB no longer generates icicles).
They bumped Ice Lance damage by another 15% to offset frost bolt stack removal.
Ice Floes gained another cast while moving.
Overall very good steps, have to hop on PTR and test it out, see where damage is at.
Edit - they also changed Glyph of Ice Lance to Spitting Ice - and that one will IL and Icicle to one additional target for 50% damage
Last edited by gallamann; 2013-07-24 at 06:45 PM.
Really liking the latest changes. Definitely a step into the right direction.Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
It'd be better if it was passive :\
Probs needs to be more, but I'm personally interested in testing out Splitting Ice with Icicles
Also, scaling is still an issue. They need to make Icicles match Haste or even surpass it to band-aid the scaling problem until 6.0, and I'd personally be fine if that was the case.
Still wondering why I play this game.
I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.
There's something wrong with the mastery on the PTR. I did a 3 minute DPS test and the Icicle damage seems way too low in proportion to Frostbolt and Frostfire Bolt damage. The test was done in an isolated area in Pandaria on a Turnip target, so there was it was pure single target damage. I have 27.74% mastery according to the character panel. Here's the damage spread:
Frostbolt 8.30M (29.4%)
Ice Lance 5.30M (18.8%)
Nether Tempest 4.27M (15.1%)
Frostfire Bolt 3.23M (11.4%)
Icicle 2.22M (7.9%)
Water Elemental: Waterbolt 4.04M (14.3%)
Frozen Orb 838.7K (3.0%)
So 27.74% * (8.3M + 3.23M) = 3.2M. Where did 1M damage go?
The damage with just base mastery (none from gear) would have been:
Waterbolt 4.04 / 1.2774 * 1.14 = 3.16M
Icicles = 14% * (8.3M + 3.23M) = 1.61M
Total with zero mastery = 8.3 + 5.3 + 4.27 + 3.23 + 1.51 + 3.16 + 0.84 = 26.61
Expected total with 4711 mastery rating = 8.3 + 5.3 + 4.27 + 3.23 + 3.2 + 4.04 + 0.84 = 29.18
Relative increase = 9.7%
Actual damage done = 8.3 + 5.3 + 4.27 + 3.23 + 2.22 + 4.04 + 0.84 = 28.2
Relative increase = 6%
If it had produced the right amount of Icicle damage, I would need about 500 mastery for a further 1% DPS increase. With the lower than expected Icicle damage, I would need nearly 800 mastery to gain 1% DPS. 500 rating for 1% more damage would actually probably be competitive with haste (probably better than haste).
It's possible there's some kind of icicle munching happening.
- - - Updated - - -
Boomop on the US PTR forum may have found the issue: apparently critical strikes generate Icicles with the same damage as non-crits, which means half the Icicle damage from BF-FFB is lost and about 28% of Frostbolt Icicle damage is lost. This explains why I only got 2.22M damage (the math fits).
So, no munching, but a different type of bug that should be easy to fix.
Mastery scaling seems reasonable once they fix the bug, but FFB damage seems underwhelming compared to live. I may have time to do a bit more math tomorrow to see where we stand right now.
Last edited by Tiga; 2013-07-24 at 10:39 PM.
Ah nice, tested a lot, but the issue is already known. Hope they fix it immediately
anyone tried the latest changes? huge ice lance buff and the split ice glyph seems positive. icicles doing cleave damage.
Instead of making another spreadsheet, I wrote some formulas using Lua to analyze how the changes affect total damage in a raid encounter. It's possible to take the damage per spell numbers on World of Logs, plug in your mastery value from the web armory and it will tell you how much damage you would have done on the PTR, assuming you didn't reforge anything or change armors and that the Icicle mastery bug (no bonus from crits) bug is fixed.
The math is only accurate for pure single target because there's no way to calculate the effect of Icicle cleaving without knowing if there's a potential secondary target or not. I'm also assuming that there's always a 3-stack frostbolt debuff on the target, which of course isn't true.
Here's the output using the mastery I have now in the armory and some recent 25 man encounters:
Waterbolt ratio = 104.7%
Frostbolt ratio = 118.7%
Frostfire bolt ratio = 96.3%
Ice lance ratio = 91.4%
Encounter: Primordius
Total live: 39.613M
Total PTR: 40.922M
PTR vs. live ratio: 103.3%
Encounter: Jin'rokh
Total live: 64.238M
Total PTR: 66.566M
PTR vs. live ratio: 103.6%
Encounter: Full log
Total live: 1055.831M
Total PTR: 1084.698M
PTR vs. live ratio: 102.7%
What it shows is that we are losing some damage on Ice Lance and Frostfire Bolt, but gaining slightly more on water elemental damage and frostbolt mastery. Overall, my damage would be more than 3% higher than on live.
The full log isn't accurate because I don't account for Icicle cleaving and there's quite a bit o f AOE and multitarget in there. If I factored that in there, I think it would also show a greater than 3% increase in damage, but there's no way to do that accurately.
The next step is to figure out if mastery is more valuable than haste with my gear. If it is, then there's a further DPS increase to be had by reforging & gemming differently and by using mage armor.
BTW, if you replace the 14 representing icicles with 12 for the previous PTR incarnation, you get a prediction of damage output with that scaling and the live vs. PTR totals end up being almost identical.
Here's a link to the Lua file:
http://wow.poista.net/theorycraft/PTR_5.4_analysis.lua
I used a command line Lua interpreter, but you can probably use the one built into WoW, if you download Hix LuaPad (type /pad to get the window up, hit ESC to hide it).
It shows in detail how each spell was converted from 5.3 values to 5.4 and why.
Not sure if the cleave change is sufficient. Typically we hit Frozen Orb and spam Ice Lances - but that will do 10-15% less damage now. Icicle cleave requires interleaving FB/FFB in between lances.
I think some of you overestimate the cleave from Frozen Orb. Its a 1min cd and u have to time it well with adds.
Looking back to ToT u only have one fight where u could cleave all the time(council) and this fight was more dominatet by Nethertempest then icelancespam due to Frozen Orb.
The actual mastery shifts the dmg from Icelance to Frostbolt. With the icicles cleaving you shift the dmg from the 10 second window of FrozenOrb to the 50 sec without them.
If the numbers are right i dont see a downside.
Lei Shen, during phase 2 and 3 with the ball lightning, the current mastery boosted ice lances is an example where the orb->ice lance cleave damage is extremely useful. In 5.4 in a similar situation, will still be good but it will represent a fair chunk less damage as mastery no longer boosts the IL cleaves. Allowing orb to proc icicles as well would give some oomf back into the Orb->IL spam cleave scenario.
Its not a huge issue, but its one they could look at while they are still tinkering with the mastery.
Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-07-25 at 05:51 PM.