This is great, Flex-mode on Wednesday then Normal-mode on Thursday for my guild.
Not at all surprised about the whine from entitled casuals, if you cant wait to see the new raid then get ready for normals or stop whining.
This is great, Flex-mode on Wednesday then Normal-mode on Thursday for my guild.
Not at all surprised about the whine from entitled casuals, if you cant wait to see the new raid then get ready for normals or stop whining.
Obviously it was successful because the majority of raiders still run it (Against their will? Probably, but a lot of normal and heroic raiders I know refuse to que it and do just fine in the gearing game). More importantly, there is a majority of raiders who do lfr, and there is some overlap between heroic and normal raiders, that community is still the largest, despite housing certain idiots.
More importantly, Lady DW was a joke. A plain, 100% bloody joke. Normal 25? You could pug that on a monday night with 40% noobs, idiots or asshats and still manage passed saurfang. ICC was not nearly as hard as anyone or everyone thinks it was, especially considering the gearing system at the time for tier pieces. Perhaps your server had more idiots than good players? Well I pity you, because that's basically all Blizzard's fault for keep transfers 25$ while having an empty server crisis that's been running rampant for 5 years.
Not only are you wrong about Lady DW 25 normal, you'd probably be wrong about most heroics in icc, especially the first wing, and the first 2 bosses in plague and the first boss in frost. They were a joke for the most part. And to think, my entire ICC experience was pugging.
There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.
Both of you are not getting the point. The people who you see in today's lfr are not capable (generally) of doing anything but tunneling the boss until either they die or it does. I'm not calling DW hard, for fucks sake. I'm saying 25 random people who have never seen the fight, don't know ANYTHING about it or the mechanics, or ANY strat whatsoever, would not be able to clear it. Reading comprehension is lacking here.
Agreed, sorry if I said it wrong.
90% of hardcore raiders in LFR are not assholes
but 90% of the assholes in LFR are in raid gear.
I do agree that LFR will be ´harder´ in 5.4 without the raiders. Definitely as far as tanks go. But I think myself, and many LFR people, do not mind ´hard´.. or wiping.. or repeated wiping nearly as much as we mind the toxic people, who are mostly raiders. Just read the forums.. nobody complains about wiping in LFR.. what you hear most is about the people who rant after wiping.. and it is like this thread.. I´ve read 2 or 3 people raiders here talking about their experiences with ´derps´ who wipe in LFR.
The raiders almost counter themselves. Some say LFR is way too easy, and should give no rewards and isn´t real raiding.. others talk about the derps who wipe in it... other say that it is a ´fail train´ if we wipe 5 times (how many guilds clear a boss with less than 5 wipes?).. etc etc etc.
It really is like the old George Carlin joke. Anyone who is driving faster than you is a raving lunatic, and anyone driving slower than you is a moron.
I personally do not like LFR that much. But I understand exactly why it is in the game and why it is set to the difficulty it is ( mechanisms that are griefable need to be removed). I am excited for flex mode. Mainly to raid with all the mechanisms in place, but also because if I miss a week, or I am late by 30 minutes, it is not the end of the world.
The sad part is, the era in which you are referencing (wotlk, specifically ICC, but I will go to example ToGC) was probably one of the easiest era's in all of WoW raiding. Normal mode was catered to the lowest skilled of most players, especially in 10 man. You could get your tier all from a badge of frost vendor for normal mode, then proceed to get tokens from 25 and 10h to upgrade to sanctified and 25h got heroic sanctified. It was a combination of catering to a casual crowd that was brought in with wotlk and a gearing system that would facilitate these casuals, but only caused everyone to be over-geared for already easy content.
At that time, 2-3 weeks in icc you could pug to putress and blood queen easily on 10n and saurfang on 25n. This is common knowledge for anyone on any decently populated server at the time. If you were stuck on a low population realm? Well, A) Yeah, it's sorta blizzard's fault for keeping server xfers 25$ when they have had an empty server problem for 5 years and B) Your experience=/= the real experience. Does it take rolling on one of the highest pop realms to get the real experience? That should be a no brainer, because the highest population pve hubs always house scores of pugs, guilds and groups of people always recruiting, pugging and making ends meet. It's a shame a lot of this community misses out on that.
There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.
I actually argued exactly your point and agree with you completely. I was trying to tell the other guy to try to block the ilvl stuff out of his head and just enjoy the next 6 months without focusing on the fact that most of our gear will be useless in 6 months..
Maybe you missed the news about Garrosh´s weapons - On normal and heroic modes ( flex??) Garrosh is going to drop BOA heirloom weapons that actually scale through the next expansion. they certainly won´t be used in the first tier of next expansions raids, but even still, that is a big change from what we have seen in the past.
ICC buff was added in March 2010. ICC was added in Dec 08, 2009 and normal mode was gated.
No point really, You must have forgot about http://www.wowhead.com/item=49426/emblem-of-frost You got 93 a week.
Your T10 gear of any variety requires badges in the following quantities:
Gloves - 60 Emblem of Frost
Shoulders - 60 Emblem of Frost
Head - 95 Emblem of Frost
Chest - 95 Emblem of Frost
Legs - 95 Emblem of Frost
The gear can be purchased from your respective armor merchants.
The T10.2 can be purchased by turning in your T10 piece and a boss trophy.
For the full T10 5-piece it requires 405 Emblem of Frost.
So yea You must have forgot about that LOL WHAT?
IDk I seen lots of people fail at the most easiest mechanics Hegans dance, not stacking behind ice blocks, not biting other players, standing in bad shit, not stacking, not spreading out.
There has always been people who expect to be told how the fight is spouse to go that is nothing new, LAzy people and bads have always been in this game
Bottom line back in WOTLK people could get full tier raid gear from heriocs. Today the only way to get that is do LFR or normal mode. The game Evolved, if we did not have LFR people would be running heroics to get their Tier gear.
I'm not saying the Wrath was a hardcore player expansion mana, I didn't mean to imply that, and if I did I apologize. My only point was that lfr-ers today =/= pugging in wotlk. Surely you can see that? You didn't form a pug of 25 people, all who have never seen the fight, and go clear icc. You could carry the crap out of people, yeah, I'm not saying otherwise. Just that 25 random people who have never raided and don't know anything about it can't.
But the thing is, tools like the silly proving grounds thing and the dungeon journal are easily accessible, not to bloody mention youtube videos of other people doing it. You're forgetting my point, in the essence that a lot of wotlk was easily pugged at current content with the exception of my person experience on Ulduar (stopped raiding then, bad wow choice, good life choice). Cata tier 11 tried to change that, but we all know how that wound up.
Firelands proceeded to be pugged to death in my experience as well, and I lead my own normal and heroic 10 on dragonsoul. I'd pug in 3 people and tell them the 3 mechanics they would have to lookout for on each fight. What my point is, is that you underestimate the raiders that have been forced in with idiots, trolls and the like and put them down for literally no reason other than that they cannot facilitate the time needed to put into normal modes. And punishing them because of some stupid notion of you wanting to feel better at beating content (other than beating it on 1-3 difficulty levels higher than them) is just sad.
There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.
Ok, just to sum it up, because to be clear, you are making no sense.
You say in DS, there was an expectation that people would go from LFR to real raiding.
You say in SoO, despite having Flex mode, with wings, and being cross-realm, there is less expectation that people will move up?
Sorry, i just don´t believe that to be the case. I believe it is MUCH more likely that people move up past LFR in SoO then they did in DS. Just the fact that it is in wings will make a huge difference for realm pugs... it will feel more like doing a world boss. Especially after the first 2 months when most people know the content.
I think you have just reached a little burn-out phase yourself... and that happens.. like I said, I think all of us have had that moment where we saw the man behind the curtain and realized it isn´t worth grinding gear, especially at the end of an expansion. But then hopefully you come back and realize sometimes it is fun to just kill stuff for no reason other than wanting to kill it faster next week.
And you don't just get thrown in with 25 random retards in lfr. You can have normal mode raiders, heroic raiders queing in their offtime, people that -can- carry the crap out of the raid. As well as good players and good raiders mixed with the whole thing because they prefer lfr over spending countless hours trying to get into and do normal modes.
I doubt (Murphy's Law save me) that rng will ever be cruel enough to put together 25 unique people that have never raided in their life and are barely geared enough for that lfr content. It's the same with wotlk/cata pugging. The point is moot.
There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.
No, I didn't forget about badges, I simply misunderstood what you meant by getting tier. However, on the point of badges, you really think that today's lfr community is going to farm badges? To put forth any effort, however insignificant it may be, to get more reward? People already queue up for lfr and afk the ENTIRE time. So don't even try that shit, because it's ridiculous.
The entire conflict that you started out here with was about gating anyway. I've laid out why Blizzard gates content, and you just refuse to acknowledge it, so I guess you wanted to change the topic to something else.
- - - Updated - - -
I know, but what I'm getting at is the player base. Of course you're going to get some n/h raiders when you queue into an lfr. I was pointing out the disparity of the players that solely run lfr who also don't take the time or effort to know how to play their class. If you were to take my example, and add in normal and heroic raiders to the mix of puggers, then you have what lfr is presently, not the scenario I was laying out.
1. Blizzard does never cater to real raiders. They want people to stay and play their game. Lots of LFR heros sub for clearing the content in 1 evening and unsub again. Then they go to twitter and the forums and write stuff like "GC, if you change LFR I will unsub in a second and never come back!". Still Blizzard catered to them with LFR in the first place and now they have a problem of very big magnitude.
2. When some LFR hero comes and states that he unsubs because he can't clear all of LFR in week 1, what would be the difference? He would still unsub after clearing LFR in week 1 if it were possible.
Yes, it's alot easier to farm badges than farm lfr to get gear that MIGHT drop. Badges = no rng
And those people tend to get kicked from the group rather quickly
I personally do not agree with gating content at all because they gate lfr and flex now to falsely keep those people playing longer till they clear it. Normal modes and Hardmodes have a longer life span because of difficulty.
Since you wanna change the subject Do you think SoO will be another DS/ICC where we have it for a yr
The devs have said repeatedly that the best enjoyment of the game is when you play with friends. Any time Flex gets mentioned they say this as the major reason for creating it. But everything is not ´best or horrible´, there is middle ground. While LFR is not the ´best´ way to raid, it is a fun, and meaningful part of many players ´end-game´. Would the devs like to get those players into Flex, certainly because they think it is more enjoyable, and they say it all the time. The other thing the devs say all the time, that I wish you would hear, is that there is this misconception that without LFR, people would do normal raids... no, they simply would not ever see the raid at all.
And remember, we have now had two 14+ boss raids in a row. How many did Firelands and TOC have? The more people in LFR, the bigger raids we are getting because the devs can justify the costs. You eliminate LFR, then you are back to having 6-8 boss raids and 5 man dungeons instead.
I doubt we're going to be running SoO on the same order of magnitude as icc or ds, simply because blizzard has come out and stated many times this expac that they want to get content out faster. Does that mean we get 5.5/6.0 in the next 3 months? No, but I also doubt we're going to be waiting upwards of 10+ months like we did last expac, waiting for DS to be over.
The issue being your scenario would be such an astronomically low possibility I wouldn't even consider it as good data to any sort of analysis. And to be perfectly clear. There are many, -MANY- Lfr raiders who are ex normal, ex heroic that not only take the effort to spend 5 minutes at icy veins.com and learn how2class, but also know how to gear it and spec it. And yes, there are people that stack stam as BRM monks or don't use thunder focus tea (giving broad examples because I'm not listing every possible fault) and that's pretty bad on their part, however the point still remains that a situation where 25 random people (heroic raiders, normal raiders, good players running said content, idiots, players who have gear but play subpar) could still defeat a 25 normal raid boss, as they did in times previous. Would it take time to do such things, and much understanding on the parts of the players who don't know any better? Yes. Will there be hiccups, stupid wipes? Yes. Will it be the smoothest run ever? No. But people aren't as stupid as you claim them to be.
There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.
Say it with me Blizzard is a business, They want to make money. Who would you cater to? the majority of your customers or the minority?
Well the funny thing is those people are probably unsubbed allready and wont resub till all wings of LFR are unlocked. In fact if I do recall correctly the reason why they said they gated LFR was because Raiders in raiding guilds bitched, whined, cryed, pissed and moaned how they were forced to do lfr.
To be fair, two expansions in a row we waited 10 months-a year for an expansion. The promise of faster content and faster expansions and the faith I gave to blizzard on a personal level was lost when mop was delayed a year. You can probably expect them to do the same with the next expansion as they will probably wait for next June or later to finish it. 9 months of SoO reporting in. (Also notice both times they stated they were working on the expansions for years before they were actually announced)
There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.