Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[stellvia]

The thing is, CCGs are an evolution of sports cards which have been around for over a century. (Although interestingly enough, the first baseball cards showed up with chewing tobacco tins afaik) So there is technically a long history for random card packs. And there is something to be said for the fact you can trade or just flatout buy the cards you want vs. closed ecosystems where you can't forward them to the next year edition of the sports game, trade, or outright buy them, etc.

The legislation in the US is actually the lesser of concerns for EA: The majority of their Ultimate Team revenue is from Fifa which is by far bigger outside of the US. So if the EU passes legislation that heavily regulates or bans them, its still GG.

"Think of the children" is a trite argument these days, but there is something to be said for inundating children with these sorts of vice-based systems from a young age and normalizing the behavior.

[Yunru]

Seriosly???? Giving present emote (wich would be free in any other mmo) is in lootbox. (and expensive)



We realy need a law as soon as posible. As other publishers may follow this suit.

[Greevir]

It's a cosmetic item that has absolutely no effect on anyone else. Let them charge whatever they want for it.

[stellvia]

At the same time it does say something that they chose that specific emote to be $30, when in the spirit of giving... you think that one specifically out of any of them might... gasp... be a free part of the event.

[kamuimac]

aww the whining of poor miserable screwups who cant afford nice lootboxes because they spend all life playing games is just delicious

lootboxes are ok and more then accepted and welcome by milion of players who didnt fuck up their life in order to play games

maybe instead protesting them try it too instead spending your whole life burger flipping and whining you cant afford lootboxes

lootboxes for the win

but more seriusly - milion of players do love spending even thousands of dollars monthly on lootboxes - its their choice and clearly games which dont have it are missing on biilions of dollars - not having lootboxes in game in this day and age is active action agains shareholders gains - and no sane company wants to do so.

[stellvia]

It's not that I can't afford lootboxes, its that they're a shitty mechanic that has nothing to do with games/gameplay. I like to play good games. Lootboxes go against the grain of making good games. They're strictly a corporate revenue system.

[Yunru]

It's not that I can't afford lootboxes, its that they're a shitty mechanic that has nothing to do with games/gameplay. I like to play good games. Lootboxes go against the grain of making good games. They're strictly a corporate revenue system.

True that. And even if you empty your bank account, you may still end up getting crap. Because there is no regulation to prevent this from happening.

[segara82]

*in Professor Putricides voice* Good news everyone!

Wolfgang Kreißig, head of the german comission, has announced that it is possible that lootboxes could violate a german law that forbids targeting kids and teenagers. A decision will be made in March, resulting in fines or even sale-stops for games with lootboxes.
Belgian minister of justice Koen Geens still wants to ban them, and IMO if Germany does it in the next two months most of the EU will follow suit.

[Orlong]

*in Professor Putricides voice* Good news everyone!

Wolfgang Kreißig, head of the german comission, has announced that it is possible that lootboxes could violate a german law that forbids targeting kids and teenagers. A decision will be made in March, resulting in fines or even sale-stops for games with lootboxes.
Belgian minister of justice Koen Geens still wants to ban them, and IMO if Germany does it in the next two months most of the EU will follow suit.

Sorry but kids do not have money of their own nor credit cards to use to buy lootboxes. People who cannot buy your product cannot be targeted. If parents are buying them for their kids, that's up to the parents to say no, not the government. Additionally, kids shouldn't even be playing many of these games anyway because they are rated 17+. If people want loot boxes to go away, the solution is easy, just refuse to buy them

[Deleted]

Sorry but kids do not have money of their own nor credit cards to use to buy lootboxes. People who cannot buy your product cannot be targeted. If parents are buying them for their kids, that's up to the parents to say no, not the government. Additionally, kids shouldn't even be playing many of these games anyway because they are rated 17+. If people want loot boxes to go away, the solution is easy, just refuse to buy them

Coupled with the fact that a lot of the people cheering this lootbox "revolution" forget if the company can't get money this way, they will get it another. At least this way I choose not to buy the lootbox and pay no extra....

[Sliske]

I don't really care about cosmetic only lootboxes. Overwatch's lootboxes I buy, but HoTS loot boxes i have never bought. If you want the items (keyword: want, not need. want) then you buy the lootboxes. I don't want the items in HoTS, nor do i need them, so I don't buy them. I don't need the items in OW, but I do want them so I buy them.

If a game has actual power upgrades in the lootboxes like EA games does, or if games have progression enhancers in them then yeah, I just avoid that game entirely.

Its about self control. I can't believe we're actually discussing banning or regulating lootboxes when theres off licenses (liquor stores) and bars on every street in existence and people with little money or even no money are going there anyway. This seems like a bunch greater danger to weak willed people. They're trading rent money, food money and general well being money to buy vodka.

Ban THAT shit. Not fucking Overwatch or CSGO skins. Come the fuck on.

- - - Updated - - -

Eh, China already did their thing with it, and now other locations are following suit.

Its absolutely stupid that china went after lootboxes, when mobile games have magnitudes bigger market and the entirety of mobile games' market is pay to win, something much more damaging than bloody cosmetics.

https://www.superdataresearch.com/ma...ear-in-review/

[segara82]

Sorry but kids do not have money of their own nor credit cards to use to buy lootboxes. People who cannot buy your product cannot be targeted. If parents are buying them for their kids, that's up to the parents to say no, not the government. Additionally, kids shouldn't even be playing many of these games anyway because they are rated 17+. If people want loot boxes to go away, the solution is easy, just refuse to buy them

Really? No pocket money? No money gifts from their grandparents or other relatives? Nor pick-pocketing or stealing to fuel their addiction?
Kids are not broke, they have less purchasing power than adults, but they have money.
Or what about these nice little cards you can buy at nearly every supermarket, gas station or electronic shops that exchange your cash into digital currency, perfect to buy/exchange for lootboxes. Which one do you want, the one from Blizzard, RITO, EA, Valve ...? So many choices.
So, no credit card required.
EA Battlefront 2? rated Teen
Overwatch? rated Teen
They are not Rated 17+ despite what you say.

Why do you spout so much bullshit?

Edit:
And for the n-th time:
Companies try with all the tricks they are allowed to use to turn as many kids and teenagers into gambling addicts.
In order to prevent that steps have to be taken. Since not buying these games results in EA doubling down on them (yes, they announced the return of the MTs for EA BF II) a higher authority then just the parents/gamers has to take action against these corporations. So now several countries try to regulate/ban them.

[StrawberryZebra]

Sorry but kids do not have money of their own nor credit cards to use to buy lootboxes. People who cannot buy your product cannot be targeted. If parents are buying them for their kids, that's up to the parents to say no, not the government. Additionally, kids shouldn't even be playing many of these games anyway because they are rated 17+. If people want loot boxes to go away, the solution is easy, just refuse to buy them

EA's most profitable Lootboxes come from the FIFA series. In the UK, that's a game that carries an age rating of 3. They also use similar systems in their other sports games, including racing games such as Need for Speed, and all of these are also typically rated 3 too. NBA 2018 is one of the most egregious examples of Microtransactions in a full priced game too and that is also given a 3.

Overwatch is a 12, which also means that it's suitable for minors, Star Wars Battlefront is a 16, still below the legal age to gamble in the UK.

There is an argument to be made that any game with lootboxes in should automatically be given an 18 age rating, but pretending that lootboxes aren't in games suitable for children is disengenuous. They might not be explicitly targeting children with them, but they're not going out of their way to hide them either. They seem to be doing their very best to normalise the practice by introducing it to the next generation of gamers early.

[Coldkil]

Its absolutely stupid that china went after lootboxes, when mobile games have magnitudes bigger market and the entirety of mobile games' market is pay to win, something much more damaging than bloody cosmetics.

Well, while i agree i think there's more to the issue than simply "cosmetics only VS cashgrabbing shit".

First of all, the issue with lootboxes is the gambling/addicting factor. Buying stuff with no precise outcome (you always win something but most of it has no value) is what makes lootboxes a shady behaviour made only to generate way more revenue than with simple plain microtransaction.

Example: if OW skins were all in a store where you could just pick the ones you want for X amount of money, it would have been fine aswell, and imho better than lootboxes that are made so you spend way more because all you get is duplicates.
That's the design issue lootboxes have. Again, i agree with you that "cosmetics only" can be fine and is generally tolerated, but it's what made the whole lootbox thing go and spread wildly on every single game, at the expense of quality, progression systems and content overall.

That's why mobile gaming is not targeted (for the most part). It's pretty easy for gamers to see how these crappy shovelware are made in a continuos effort to make people spend a lot in a short time then be abandoned so the newer more shiny version comes out and people is trapped again in the same loop. This sucks and there's no way around this - 99% of mobile "games" are just cashgrabbing crap for people too ignorant to know better.

However, many of them revolve around "premium currency". You just buy X premium then spend them on various game activities. It's still shit, but you know what you're buying plain and simple.

The whole thing that's currently running is not a crusade against crap ways to generate revenue for nothing in games; it's just about the potential gambling lootboxes represent. Best case scenario will see lootboxes to be banned (which i'm fine with) and have them replaced by a standard microtx shop or with a base price increase of games.

[Orlong]

EA's most profitable Lootboxes come from the FIFA series. In the UK, that's a game that carries an age rating of 3. They also use similar systems in their other sports games, including racing games such as Need for Speed, and all of these are also typically rated 3 too. NBA 2018 is one of the most egregious examples of Microtransactions in a full priced game too and that is also given a 3.

Overwatch is a 12, which also means that it's suitable for minors, Star Wars Battlefront is a 16, still below the legal age to gamble in the UK.

There is an argument to be made that any game with lootboxes in should automatically be given an 18 age rating, but pretending that lootboxes aren't in games suitable for children is disengenuous. They might not be explicitly targeting children with them, but they're not going out of their way to hide them either. They seem to be doing their very best to normalise the practice by introducing it to the next generation of gamers early.

And who is giving 12 year olds hundreds of dollars to spend on the boxes? Shovelling the neighbors sidewalk for 5 bucks in the winter isn't going to make them enough to become a gambler, especially when they likely also want to buy other stuff too

[Orby]

This whole loot box is weird because I am fine with lootboxes as long as they are cosmetic and don't impact the game in anyway (somewhere Jim Sterling busted a blood vessel in me saying that lol)

I am only against loot boxes if whats in them helps contribute to the game, as in Pay 2 Win.Having loot boxes contain OP weapons and gear that makes you better than anyone else. Thats what I hate.

But I do see the arguments to people hating loot boxes no matter what it is. I totally get it. Because I come from an era where video games came all on one cartridge, disc or tape, there was no DLC, back then. Inf act the earliest for to any additional content I remember were expansion packs. And it makes me wonder if all these loot boxes or additional content DLC could be added in a Expansion Pack would we even have a problem?

[Coldkil]

This whole loot box is weird because I am fine with lootboxes as long as they are cosmetic and don't impact the game in anyway (somewhere Jim Sterling busted a blood vessel in me saying that lol)

I am only against loot boxes if whats in them helps contribute to the game, as in Pay 2 Win.Having loot boxes contain OP weapons and gear that makes you better than anyone else. Thats what I hate.

But I do see the arguments to people hating loot boxes no matter what it is. I totally get it. Because I come from an era where video games came all on one cartridge, disc or tape, there was no DLC, back then. Inf act the earliest for to any additional content I remember were expansion packs. And it makes me wonder if all these loot boxes or additional content DLC could be added in a Expansion Pack would we even have a problem?

My post above. The whole think is about lootboxes as a practice. They're a crap way to make ingame items artificially rare so people spend more money on those boxes. I agree that cosmetics have no impact on gameplay, but we're not discussing about that (basically because there's not much to discuss about).

Are you fine with this way to make items available to you where you have no guarantee to get the thing you want and the only way (excluding failsafes) is to spend more and more money on it?

Simply put: a character skin does take some effort to make, and while not taking away anything form people who design/realize them, it's something completely different compared to a new map, new game mode or whatever gameplay related. They're asking money from you for a very "cheap" addition, and most important they're asking you a random amount of money, starting at X.XX$.

Many pick OW as an example, but the fact is that the whole lootbox system is backed by new maps, modes and heroes for free, which is the important part everyone's leaving out. We're discussing about lootboxes as a system to get revenue for a very small investment that isn't backed up by the amount of content that the generated revenue should make sure it happens.

A question: how do you think OW would work without lootboxes and a skin shop instead?

[Orby]

My post above. The whole think is about lootboxes as a practice. They're a crap way to make ingame items artificially rare so people spend more money on those boxes. I agree that cosmetics have no impact on gameplay, but we're not discussing about that (basically because there's not much to discuss about).

Are you fine with this way to make items available to you where you have no guarantee to get the thing you want and the only way (excluding failsafes) is to spend more and more money on it?

Simply put: a character skin does take some effort to make, and while not taking away anything form people who design/realize them, it's something completely different compared to a new map, new game mode or whatever gameplay related. They're asking money from you for a very "cheap" addition, and most important they're asking you a random amount of money, starting at X.XX$.

Many pick OW as an example, but the fact is that the whole lootbox system is backed by new maps, modes and heroes for free, which is the important part everyone's leaving out. We're discussing about lootboxes as a system to get revenue for a very small investment that isn't backed up by the amount of content that the generated revenue should make sure it happens.

A question: how do you think OW would work without lootboxes and a skin shop instead?

See this is my other side of the coin, I totally agree with you.

I am not a money or business minded person, I have seen some posts on here seeing some people know what they're re talking about a lot more than I could explain on the subject. nI am just a guy with an opinion on loot boxes :P

But to answer your question, a skin shop? maybe. A way to actually know what you are paying for is fine. I would honestly like it better than lootboxes. If only it was still cosmetic only.

But thats my opinion

[StrawberryZebra]

And who is giving 12 year olds hundreds of dollars to spend on the boxes? Shovelling the neighbors sidewalk for 5 bucks in the winter isn't going to make them enough to become a gambler, especially when they likely also want to buy other stuff too

I had a paper round when I was 12, while I didn't make a fortune, it was enough to buy myself a new PS1 game every couple of weeks. There's lots of ways for kids to make money if they want it.

Excelent work side-stepping the issue though. The fact is that the games most ridden with lootboxes are some of the most child-friendly ones on the market. Like FIFA - No parents are going to be worried about buying that for a child. It's football, the worst your 3 year old is going to see in it is Wayne Roonies face.

FIFA and games like it are already in the hands of minors far too young to be able to understand the consequences of buying lootboxes. Pretending that they're only a temptation for adults is nothing more than ignorance.

And it makes me wonder if all these loot boxes or additional content DLC could be added in a Expansion Pack would we even have a problem?

I've never had a problem with expansion packs as such. Though, like you, when I got into gaming buying a copy got you the complete experiance. Expansions were a way to add extra content on top of that, usually in the form of extra campaigns and content that had to be cut originally due to time constraints. Generally speaking, you got roughly the same amount of new content in an expansion pack as you did with the game originally.

These days, games are deliberately sold to us incomplete and require the DLC to give you the full experience. The practice of selling additional content is fine in and of itself, but cutting that content to then sell back is abhorent.

[segara82]

NECRO-MANCY!

For those not paying attention (so many things happening all at once):
After last years report in the UKs House of Commons now the next instance, the House of Lords has called for immediate action to classify lootboxes as gambling



I know, some of you do not like YongYea, but just about every youtuber who handles gaming news talks about it so pick your fav channel and listen up.

Why is this important?
Because the House of Lords HAS the means to change legislation in the UK.
And since this will hurt the big companies, eg FUT makes about 50% of EAs entire revenue, changes have to be made.
IMO we will get a mixture of smaller, shorter and cheaper to produce game for quantity and/or more high quality games to attract loads of gamers.