Racials in PvP

[Deleted]

I've always wanted racials to be removed from instanced content (gw2 kinda do it this way) or made to be a completely cosmetic thing such as emotes (undeads eating a corpse, dwarves wipping out a mug of of ale) but since cataclysm when i bid fairwell to my undead priest and got to finally say hello to my beautiful goblin priest i REALLY REALLY wanted them removed from pve and pvp.

Edit: to clarify, i fully accept it will never happen because of race changes and faction changes so instead...
Heres racial rebalance post 6045621

Racials are not faction exclusive!

Undeads, Humans and the future Kul'tirans - all have Emfh, Undeads and future Undead allied race will have WotF which functions exactly like Emfh

Goblins, Gnomes and any subrace we get in future - both have racial themed rocket jump 1 minute cd which removes any roots or snares, deploys a 15 second glider if you haven't landed within normal time frame (ie you jump off a cliff). Expansive mind also applies to goblins, gnomes have a mechanical robot version of the hobgoblin pack. Rocket barrage finally gets to be retired from the game to focus on his full time job as the wowhead logo since no one ever uses this ever.
Oh and goblin alchemy has been changed to goblin engineering, those pesky gnomes are no longer being falsey advertised with their subpar inventions as being the only engineering race.

Belf + Velf Arcane torrent. 2 min cd
Would probably say there's an argument for a talent named "vanity" which gave transmog cost to belf but thats pushing it.

Tauren, Highmountain, Draenei, Lightforged all now have Hoof stomp and its now instant cast, immune to DR's
A lore friendly gift of the naaru something like bovine valor could go to taurens but i don't think anyone actually really cares about it.

Nelfs and Nelf 2.0 both have shadowmeld, shadowmeld now breaks after 2 second of moving casting or attacking will instantly break the stealth during movement. if Nightborne having shadowmeld is a thematical issue, either a nightwell or arcane based version, or arcendor fruit give stealth until you move. They are a race all about illusions afterall

Orcs, Draenor orcs, Dwarves and Dark irons all have hardiness, bloodfury now works exactly like stoneform (different visual), dark iron also have stoneform ofc.

Worgens and any future sub race worgen, Trolls and Zandalari trolls now all have berserking, darkflight gains voodooshuffles passive and voodoo gains darkflights active (obviously a different animation), passive is NOT lost when active is used.

Pandas remain unchanged in this situation since both faction already however i feel their low pop is far more about being pandas than it is about the racials.

Assuming vulpera become an allied race i would imagine they would be the first neutral race on their own or possibly even the goblins and gnome subrace (just purely on goblins and gnomes are pretty low on viable potential sub races so would just be a different type of tiny race, no actual relation go goblins or gnomes). Eitherway they do not appear to be tech based so would have brand new racial that ofc goes to both factions.

All other passive racials which actually are small thematical stuff remain on their own specific races.


Every faction gets the same. Less popular race racials which have always been weaker than the far more powerful ones have been buffed a bit to compete.

Play the faction you like! play the race you like! Or just play the most op racial on your faction atleast this would see more of the lesser shown races.
But at the very least we would see less humans, dh,shamans and druids vs barbie and friends

Oh and give nelf2.0 and velf dh please :(

Discuss.

[Cyanu]

well structured and well thought, organizing racials like this completely balances both factions and races

[Knolan]

No please, pruning and homogenization is what has been killing PvP since cata, we don't need more of it.

[Deleted]

No please, pruning and homogenization is what has been killing PvP since cata, we don't need more of it.

No, racials have been ruining pvp since the game began and over time the faction balance of the game, of servers, of everything has been completely destroyed by it.
There is a reason that all main pvpers have been alliance for almost forever now, and there is a reason that almost all pve raiders have been horde since almost forever now.

Until Race change and faction change were a thing the balances and imbalances were kept in check because people did not want to re roll and lose everything they worked for over the years, now with a click of a couple buttons you can switch to the faction and race of your choice, this is what destroyed faction imbalance in both pve and pvp, there is a reason they removed the shaman and paladin faction restrictions in tbc. Prior to these services Horde and Alliance had thriving pvp and pve servers and communities, after race and faction change became a thing it has devolved into Horde = PVE Alliance = PVP, the "pruning" you're talking about is the only thing that actually made the horde a viable pvp choice this expansion since silences were a rare thing outside of blood elfs, the 4 expansions too late "nerf" and i stress the quotes on the word nerf here, for EMFH saw many shift to belf instead.

None of this would have EVER been an issue had both factions had the same racials available. The entire game is designed around Horde and Alliance both get the same of everything... except racials.


Classic - Wotf was king, Hardiness was a strong second
TBC - Wotf was king, hardiness was a strong second, arcane torrent was introduced
Wotlk - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
Cata - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
MoP - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
WoD - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
Legion - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO, now with legion prune Arcane torrent is very strong now too.


In Wod, for example. The ONLY reason you saw night elfs in the second spot of races behind 65% of all rated pvp being human was because humans could not be druids




It's actually pretty ironic that you want racials to stay as they are because you do not want "homogenization" when the current system is the entire reason that factions are completely homogenized.

Alliance = Humans, druids, shamans and demon hunters with a much smaller minority of people who play human classes as non humans
Horde = Belfs, druids, shamans and a small minority of people who play belf classes as non belfs, most well known being the orc warrior.

[Knolan]

No, racials have been ruining pvp since the game began and over time the faction balance of the game, of servers, of everything has been completely destroyed by it.
There is a reason that all main pvpers have been alliance for almost forever now, and there is a reason that almost all pve raiders have been horde since almost forever now.

Until Race change and faction change were a thing the balances and imbalances were kept in check because people did not want to re roll and lose everything they worked for over the years, now with a click of a couple buttons you can switch to the faction and race of your choice, this is what destroyed faction imbalance in both pve and pvp, there is a reason they removed the shaman and paladin faction restrictions in tbc. Prior to these services Horde and Alliance had thriving pvp and pve servers and communities, after race and faction change became a thing it has devolved into Horde = PVE Alliance = PVP, the "pruning" you're talking about is the only thing that actually made the horde a viable pvp choice this expansion since silences were a rare thing outside of blood elfs, the 4 expansions too late "nerf" and i stress the quotes on the word nerf here, for EMFH saw many shift to belf instead.

None of this would have EVER been an issue had both factions had the same racials available. The entire game is designed around Horde and Alliance both get the same of everything... except racials.


Classic - Wotf was king, Hardiness was a strong second
TBC - Wotf was king, hardiness was a strong second, arcane torrent was introduced
Wotlk - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
Cata - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
MoP - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
WoD - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO
Legion - EMFH PARTY HERE WE GO, now with legion prune Arcane torrent is very strong now too.


In Wod, for example. The ONLY reason you saw night elfs in the second spot of races behind 65% of all rated pvp being human was because humans could not be druids




It's actually pretty ironic that you want racials to stay as they are because you do not want "homogenization" when the current system is the entire reason that factions are completely homogenized.

Alliance = Humans, druids, shamans and demon hunters with a much smaller minority of people who play human classes as non humans
Horde = Belfs, druids, shamans and a small minority of people who play belf classes as non belfs, most well known being the orc warrior.

You are definitely over simplifying this issue (you are also leaving PvE out of the picture, which many races - as humans on Classic - had a pretty big advantage).

In classic dwarf racial was really good for pvp, specially against rogues (which is like, half of the people in a BG) and best heal racial bonus when you are a priest. Gnome racial is ok as well. NE racial allows dodging CC without compromising trinket was good, also very good racial for hunters as traps require you to be out of combat to use.
TBC I have not played.
WotLK - Undead racial was nerfed at the very end, but it was pretty much OP until that point. Shadow meld allowed you to dodge CC without sacrificing your trinket in no way, pretty much the best racial for healers, specially on high end gameplay.
Cata - There where a lot of niche where different racials shine. As a feral both trolls and worgen were good because of roots. Some shadow priests would also play worgen as fade + dash added great mobility.
MoP: If you played US horde dominated, if you played EU ally dominated, pretty much that. For example, Undead mages with double offensive trinkets were pretty much the norm (it was really fun to cyclone mages, as they couldn't use ice block to leave it).

WoD forward I will agree, they broke it pretty badly, also because they removed profession bonus and engineering glove played a HUGE role balancing bursts of other races vs humans.

Up to WoD, racial was a min-max/niche choice that you could play, it added depth in the game and I wish we had more of that. Think of a character in MoP, you could choose racials, profession bonus, gems, enchants and reforging. It was really fun and I miss that.

[Sin Cara]

You must be from EU, most people on US servers are Horde.

Also, Blizzard isn't going to waiver on racials, they are hard stuck.

[Deleted]

Racials are okay, they just have to be more balanced. Thats why are they causing problems in facion imbalance and in PvP. Devs change something in next expansion but dont look at racials (they give everyone and their mother stuns and wooow orc racial is suddenly OP, hmm how could that happen...fascinating...bursty meta where silencing enemy is crucial key to kill them? wooow that belf racial is OP, hmm, its a mystery...).

Racials should be occasionally balanced just as anything else is. It really isnt that hard.

Im still waiting for some kind of "terrain preference" which would increase movement speed in prefered terrain (whole zone would be marked as such terrain for example). Night elves moving 4% faster in forests, dwarves 4% faster in mountains etc. Cool things like these never hurt.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

No please, pruning and homogenization is what has been killing PvP since cata, we don't need more of it.

Pruning and making mistakes less punishing ruined pvp. Wow is a game about choices and when you remove to many the game becomes mindless like legion. Blizzard only knows how to go from one extreme to the other they don't know what a middle ground is...

[Deleted]

We don't need perfect balance. Not even in PvP. Racials add a lot of fun.

[Appelgren]

We don't need perfect balance. Not even in PvP. Racials add a lot of fun.

For world pvp or battlegrounds maybe.

In arenas it dictates all the terms for being viable at the highest tier. Remove it from arenas. It has no place in competitive pvp whatsoever.

[Deleted]

going forward all the new racials from allied races will be locked behind PvE content.

so even though your post is well thought out, I still hope that they just disable racials in rated PvP.

[Awfulist]

People have practically begged for them to be removed from any rated pvp forever now. I don't understand why they're still an issue. I want to play Tauren/High Tauren... but I'd be gimping myself to do so in 2s/3s. Seems stupid.

[evertonbelmontt]

Watched the EU cup today and I can't believe people complain about EMFH (the old one I could understand, the new not at all) when BElf racial won two matches basically by itself.

It doesn't matter if you can't lock a healer when you can spam BElf to finish him off, YEAH!

[Appelgren]

Watched the EU cup today and I can't believe people complain about EMFH (the old one I could understand, the new not at all) when BElf racial won two matches basically by itself.

It doesn't matter if you can't lock a healer when you can spam BElf to finish him off, YEAH!

I only see complaining about Belf and orc/relentless nowadays

[docterfreeze]

Nerf arcane torrent and remove relentless and adapt from PvP talents and bam, no overpowered racials.

[MrKnubbles]

You want to homogenize racials...

[Appelgren]

You want to homogenize racials...

Thats not a bad thing. Racials shouldnt be gamebreaking but they are. No matter what you say its a bad thing. Sorry!

[Knolan]

Thats not a bad thing. Racials shouldnt be gamebreaking but they are. No matter what you say its a bad thing. Sorry!

Terrible thing, haven't you seen how the game has been going down hill ever since they started doing it?

Btw, you can roll the "optimized" race if you want.

Also, if that was the case, what would be the case of not doing the same for classes?

[Appelgren]

Btw, you can roll the "optimized" race if you want.

You are missing the point completely.
A player shouldnt be forced to reroll for the best / most optimized racial. How hard is that to understand?

- - - Updated - - -

Nerf arcane torrent and remove relentless and adapt from PvP talents and bam, no overpowered racials.

Except for EMFH and shadowmeld. Remove them all or give the exactly same one to all races.

[Knolan]

You are missing the point completely.
A player shouldnt be forced to reroll for the best / most optimized racial. How hard is that to understand?

- - - Updated - - -



Except for EMFH and shadowmeld. Remove them all or give the exactly same one to all races.

I disagree that they shouldn't, how hard is that to understand?

If you want to take min-max to those points, then yes, you have to. I would rather have to re-roll and have choices than having a stale game where everything is the same.

I re-rolled my professions several times up to WoD to get the best bonus out of it. I even re-rolled another druid on MoP to have a troll druid (btw, care to wonder how much extra rating it gave me?).