Mistweaver - Mana Issues

[Navitas]

Hi guys,

I've recently rerolled from a resto shaman (of 10 years) to mistweaver. We've cleared HC and our now pushing mythic (2/8 currently) but I'm running into some pretty brutal mana issues. I had no problems in my shaman but am really struggling on my mistweaver. I use mana tea (nearly) on CD and try and use FTT on CD (with either renewing mist or vivify), I use a mana pot too.

Most fights I struggle with mana (ranging from struggling 'a bit' too 'woah mumma, where'd my mana go!?'). Do you have any tips that might help me out?

Thanks in advance,

Nav

[Caprix]

logs could help. How much do you overheal? How much do your healing partners overheal?
MW can be brutal at hps if you spam a lot, which then cost mana. You want to be sure this spam is needed. If you end up overhealing, or causing your rdrood and disc friends to overheal because you snipe their hots/attonements heals, this is bad.

Mana tea is good IF you can use it on CD AT FULL EFFICIENTY. Which means somewhere near 5-7 vivify+ an EF, without much overheal, in the mana tea window. The point is to spend as much mana as possible here, to spend less outside of it. In the end the other talents in the row may be better depending on fight... they also allow more room for unperfect play.

[Deleted]

Mistweaver is a manahungry healer.
Cant do much about that other than trying to play at max efficiency and let the other healers take the shining spots.

[mjolnrik]

As said, mistweavers are very mana hungry, probably more so than any other healer if you are trying to spam heal every bit of damage. So one thing you always need to keep in mind is how long the fight is going to be. Zekvoz for instance I know is going to be a long fight which requires fairly constant healing throughout. So instead of using essence font on cooldown just because the raids taken damage, I might let my upwelling talent get more stacks before starting the channel. Renewing mist you want to use pretty much on cooldown always but thunder focus tea I might instead use it on vivify instead for more free healing.
Then theres enveloping mist. It uses alot of mana, you cant keep it on the tank 100% of the time and not expect to go oom. So im not saying dont use it as when the tank needs attention its a decent hot but using it all the time will run you dry.
Cant say much more except that you dont need to snipe every heal. Sometimes I watch 4 healers in my group spam healing a single target whos taken damage hoping to get to him first. Nah, thats just a waste of mana, in which case you can take the time to do some dps.
I dont really know about mana tea. My usual go to talent in that tier is spirit of the crane which gives back a ton of mana in a fight, but there are times that I take mana tea because I know I wont get much opportunity to dps, or know I am going to need to have periods of extended healing in a fight. Lifecycles I just dislike as it sorta makes you play more tank healy than I like, but on a fight like fetid which is mainly tank damage, Id probably say thats the best bet but idk.

[ReD-EyeD]

It's pretty much mandatory to melee with spirit of the crane talent in raids.

[ribthanwa]

It's pretty much mandatory to melee with spirit of the crane talent in raids.

Not really. Aside from the fast that there are a LOT of fights where we can't stand in melee this tier, using SoTC makes you completely not use Soom, which is a very mana efficient heal. It's a tradeoff either way, but I think a lot of people are trending to mana tea because of our role as a single-target specialist makes it impractical for us to forgo using soom, simply because it is a such a good spell.

[Deleted]

If you have no clue about what you are talking, please don't say such a thing. Some people may believe what you just wrote.
Most of encounters in Uldir aren't melee friendly, and you don't have enough downtime to use TotM BoK for mana purpose.

OP, You should come and ask on the monk Discord to review your log. You can also post your log on the wowanalyzer which is a good generic start.
Most of the time mana issues comes from bad TFT usage/update (ie: Use it on CD for Vivify in raids), bad ManaTea/SOTC/LC usage or too much sniping. The last one is global to all healers, its still the most important.

Come post your log in peakofserenity Discord if you want some more help :-)

[Deleted]

It's pretty much mandatory to melee with spirit of the crane talent in raids.

yeah have fun with that at mythrax, vectis or fetid mythic where bench meeles because there is not enough space @boss.

[Caprix]

I really like lifecycle on Vectis and Zekvoz.
Heavy dots = envm friendly, not melee friendly so sotc is kinda meeh, damage wise there are mana tea windows especially on Vectis but there are lot of things that may require you to "move your ass out of here now!" and spoil the mana tea.

I remember doing some raw maths and "perfect mana tea on cd" (aka 30k mana spent on the tea)= about 50% uptime on sotc = about 4 or 5 buffed envm+vivify per minute. Make your choice

[ReD-EyeD]

Most of encounters in Uldir aren't melee friendly, and you don't have enough downtime to use TotM BoK for mana purpose.

"Aren't melee friendly" as you said doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be in a melee range. I have no problems being in melee on most bosses. Mythrax is an obvious exception, but nothing like impossible even there.

More on the topic:
You need to better understand how much and when the damage comes from. I see a lot of people trying to heal some players as fast as possible wasting too much of mana on emergency heals. A lot of the time you can just throw a single hot on a low hp player and forget about it, because you know there is no raid/dot damage comes in the next few seconds.
I have seen people using Soothing>Enveloping>Vivify>Vivify>Vivify on tanks right after they switch too many times. Bonus points if they do it on Zekvoz's tentacle stacks.

But yes, peakofserenity discord will help you a lot.

[Deleted]

"Aren't melee friendly" as you said doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be in a melee range.

I never said you shouldn't go melee and hit the boss. I'm telling you shouldn't rely on it to pick you mana-saving talent.
OP is at 2/8M, saying SOTC is mandatory isn't helping him or anybody else because it's wrong.

[ReD-EyeD]

I never said you shouldn't go melee and hit the boss. I'm telling you shouldn't rely on it to pick you mana-saving talent.
OP is at 2/8M, saying SOTC is mandatory isn't helping him or anybody else because it's wrong.

Of course it's not mandatory, it was an obvious hyperbole. Not sure how can people take it for serious, but it's a whole another question.

If I remember the math right you only need like ~20 usages of Teaching of the Monastery in 90-120 seconds to outdid the almost perfect usage of Mana Tea (unless you spam Enveloping Mist, but Y THO).

[itskevinlol]

o o o o o o

[ribthanwa]

If I remember the math right you only need like ~20 usages of Teaching of the Monastery in 90-120 seconds to outdid the almost perfect usage of Mana Tea (unless you spam Enveloping Mist, but Y THO).

That's 40 seconds on non-healing gcds (roughly calculated based off your 20 stack number), or 1/3 of the time not healing. Unless the healing of the fight can be covered by just throwing out EF on cooldown and a few vivifies here and there, SoTC is clearly not for every fight, even if you COULD be in melee all the time, which you can't.

[Deleted]

Well, SOTC is still garbage for the tier, hyperbole or not.

The "perfect" mana tea is spam vivify, EF before it fade. It can save around 25-30k mana, while doing a great amount of healing, for 1 GCD.
I let you do the maths for how many GCD it takes to save as much (3 ToT + BoK is 2k mana and take 1,5sx4 for GCD) while not healing and being in melee, which isn't always possible.

[Caprix]

Of course it's not mandatory, it was an obvious hyperbole. Not sure how can people take it for serious, but it's a whole another question.

If I remember the math right you only need like ~20 usages of Teaching of the Monastery in 90-120 seconds to outdid the almost perfect usage of Mana Tea (unless you spam Enveloping Mist, but Y THO).

one stack of teaching = 0.65% mana so basically 3 stacks (which is what you want to use anyway for the best stacks/gcd spent ratio) is 2k mana (100% mana is 100k)

A nice mana tea is like 30k mana spent (1EF+6-7 vivifys), so 15k mana saved over 90-120s.

so you need 15k/2k = 7.5 "3 stacks" boks over the same duration.

7.5*4 = 30 gcd. Depending on 0%-20% haste gcd will be 1.25s to 1.5s, so 37.5 to 45s spent meleeing.

Depending if mana tea is used on cd (90s) or "somewhere near cd" (120s), this spreads to "only" 31% to 50% melee uptime. Not counting additionnal movements due to been in melee+loss of soom usage.

- - - Updated - - -

And for the record, over 120s you are going to spend 13 gcd casting rems, 4 gcd casting chi burst, certainly about 8-10 gcd casting EF. At least 4gcds in soom for statue unless you spec out of it.
All in all that's about another batch of 30gcd, so again 37.5s to 45s depending on haste, and still almost 0 spot heal done (the good news is a very big part of these "locked" gcds can be made on the move)

As stated above, clearly not for every fight.

[Raiz]

Well, SOTC is still garbage for the tier, hyperbole or not.

The "perfect" mana tea is spam vivify, EF before it fade. It can save around 25-30k mana, while doing a great amount of healing, for 1 GCD.
I let you do the maths for how many GCD it takes to save as much (3 ToT + BoK is 2k mana and take 1,5sx4 for GCD) while not healing and being in melee, which isn't always possible.

I use that too, problem is, it's often at these moments where you're overhealing a lot. Sometimes I'd like to wait and not use it on CD so that I can use it more efficiently when the whole raid is taking damage (Kinda obvious, but it may be hard for some to not use it when it comes off CD).

[ribthanwa]

I use that too, problem is, it's often at these moments where you're overhealing a lot. Sometimes I'd like to wait and not use it on CD so that I can use it more efficiently when the whole raid is taking damage (Kinda obvious, but it may be hard for some to not use it when it comes off CD).

In my opinion, for practical use, mana tea really shouldn't be used in situations where you are likely to overheal, with the premise there that you are getting maximal uses. The fact is that not all healers get to use all of their cooldown maximally during a fight, and things need to be spread out to cover the hps needs of the fight. Take Vectis for example. Basically all of the high-mana healing is during immunosupression/contaigion casts along with the intermission, due to mobility restrictions. Therefore, you should really only be using mana tea during these phases, with conscious effort to when your other healers are using cooldown, to make your whole team more efficient, not just yourself. The entire purpose of mana tea is to let you go mana crazy for a short while, without feeling the long term negatives of doing so.

[shise]

Mistweaver is a manahungry healer.
Cant do much about that other than trying to play at max efficiency and let the other healers take the shining spots.

As of today, the state is quite similar, you can still run out of mana easy, but this is a classic healer tip:
Know the fight and know when to sue your CD´s
Revival is no doubt a good tool, combined with EF if can really make you top any healing matter... you just gotta use them right. One Revival as soon as the fight goes on and there is room for it, then you will surely have one more.. maybe two.

I think that by focusing on the tanks and some others getting damage, a monk can be close to the top easily.

[mkultra55]

What's everyone's thought's on the T45 Tier for Dazar'alor?

I've been swapping between SotC and Mana Tea based on the fight but I do stick with Tea for the majority of the encounters. Jadefire Masters is a great example of a fight where SotC can shine though.