Japanese women push back against Valentine's tradition of 'obligation chocolate'

[korijenkins]

But, white day is of course an non-issue, despite it being the exact same thing except for men, just a month later.
Sad to see japanese women catch a whiff of the trash that is western feminism, hypocrisy be thy name.

I mean, I personally wouldn't want to buy anything for anyone, so I guess I'm a western idiot.

[Rozz]

Idc, as long as they still don't expect the same on White day it's fine. Spend money on who you want to, but don't expect 'repayment' for a gift.

[Azelas]

That's a funny way to word that.

yeah I noticed after I wrote it down but decided to leave it there lmao

[Easo]

Another example why some traditions and parts of culture should be changed/removed.
It is a cute tradition, but the cuteness ends the moment it becomes pretty much forced. I think most here know that you do not want to be the nail sticking out in Japan.

[Elegiac]

Idc, as long as they still don't expect the same on White day it's fine. Spend money on who you want to, but don't expect 'repayment' for a gift.

I mean it's fairly telling that your immediate reaction to this is "they must be trying to get a free ride". It speaks to a rather warped perception of others, you should get that checked out.

[GreenJesus]

It's OBLIGATION, not obligatory.

And "obligation" doesn't quite capture the spirit of giri. It's a somewhat complicated social dynamic of personal interrelationship in Japan.

But I mean, you reap what you sow. Valentine's Day (and White Day) were pushed by industry, not affection. And they pushed too hard and too far in Japan, as they tend to do. Now instead of a joyous occasion where you can display affection without worrying too much about propriety, it's become an event governed by social pressures. Not only because the whole giri choco thing for the girls, but also in terms of "how many chocolates did you get?" for the boys.

And that's not confined to Japan, either. Similar problems (albeit to a lesser degree) exist in many other countries.

Yeh I've seen it pop up in quite a few anime I've watched where the main character doesn't get any chocolates but the popular dude is literally showered in chocolate by every girl in school.

[Zuben]

We only have voluntary stuff that's actually voluntary. Things like after work drinks and other socializing, not buying shit to co-workers. I'm glad the Japanese are opposing the tradition.

An off-note, Valentine's is held literally as "friends' day" in Finland, meaning any romantic tones you'd see are pretty much pushed only by some stores. It's not a day you'd do anything out of the ordinary because of it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

how the fuck people can defend having to be obligated to give other people chocolate for some fucking reason is beyond me.

Do whatever the fuck you want, you shouldn't be obligated to do shit other than do your work.

Because it's women objecting.

If next month we had an article about Japanese men wanting to abolish White Day, you wouldn't have seen the same aggressions in any shape or form.

Some people either didn't read the article or jump to conclusions, let's practice a bit of empathy here.

Suppose you work in an office environment where 90% is male (welcome to Japan), now imagine how expensive chocolates are given that V-day is heavily commercialized, similar to Xmas which was only a mere 6 weeks ago, and people are still feeling the hurt in their wallets from all the holiday expenses.

Imagine you cant stand half of your coworkers and your boss is a royal <insert word of preference>

Nothing to do with feminism, simply a collective of individuals who are sick of spending their hard earned cash on obligatory, expensive, gift-wrapped, mass-commercialized sweets all to engorge Godiva's & co.'s corporate greed. That, and a looming increase in consumption tax and stagnant wages in a country that has been in an economic slump for the past 30 years and you get why this article exists.

Quoted for nuance.
Seems to me that the abolishing of this "holiday must" would also solve the problem with White Day.

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It's OBLIGATION, not obligatory.

And "obligation" doesn't quite capture the spirit of giri. It's a somewhat complicated social dynamic of personal interrelationship in Japan.

But I mean, you reap what you sow. Valentine's Day (and White Day) were pushed by industry, not affection. And they pushed too hard and too far in Japan, as they tend to do. Now instead of a joyous occasion where you can display affection without worrying too much about propriety, it's become an event governed by social pressures. Not only because the whole giri choco thing for the girls, but also in terms of "how many chocolates did you get?" for the boys.

And that's not confined to Japan, either. Similar problems (albeit to a lesser degree) exist in many other countries.

I remember our school days where the popular girls and boys got cards on Alla Hjärtans Dag (All Heart's Day) and the ones without any were made fun of. I shudder to think what it might be like now that American traditions have grown even more and social media exists.

[Halyon]

But, white day is of course an non-issue, despite it being the exact same thing except for men, just a month later.
Sad to see japanese women catch a whiff of the trash that is western feminism, hypocrisy be thy name.

How about just banning both?

[Rozz]

I mean it's fairly telling that your immediate reaction to this is "they must be trying to get a free ride". It speaks to a rather warped perception of others, you should get that checked out.

What's telling is that you turned a comment about men deserving the same ability to opt out into pseudo baby rage. Maybe check your warped reading comprehension.

[Cosmic Janitor]

same.

I watched some animes about it and girls gave it to their BFF's or boyfriends.

Well that is obviously just fiction. I'm sure that wouldn't reflect it 100% accurate, but even past that I never heard about it that much in the "explanatory sources", not even from business contacts. I'm curious if every women treated it like that previously or if this was more a thing that you'd see from "airhead office fairy" type that constantly smiles at everybody and constantly tries to socialize at work. Even with all the stereotypes of japanese people, I can't see many self-respecting people waste much effort on this, unless you really want or need to suck up to your superiors.

[Warlockjen]

We have secretary day where we buy the office ladies stuff.

I hope you realize that men can be secretaries as well.

I'm gonna just ignore the part where you don't even realize that name was changed to Administrative Professionals' Day.

And not to mention, no one is required to buy gifts for coworkers, it's optional. You do it because you want to express your appreciation for someone. If women in Japan find it burdensome and/or inappropriate they shouldn't have to buy their male coworkers chocolate just because they were born male.

[ellieg]

I hope you realize that men can be secretaries as well.

I'm gonna just ignore the part where you don't even realize that name was changed to Administrative Professionals' Day.

And not to mention, no one is required to buy gifts for coworkers, it's optional. You do it because you want to express your appreciation for someone. If women in Japan find it burdensome and/or inappropriate they shouldn't have to buy their male coworkers chocolate just because they were born male.

Lol administrative professional. Just cause u call a janitor a custodial technician, doesn't make him not a janitor.

And every secretary I've ever seen is a lady. Men are the rate exception so referring to them as ladies is fine. Lmao.

[Biomega]

And not to mention, no one is required to buy gifts for coworkers, it's optional. You do it because you want to express your appreciation for someone. If women in Japan find it burdensome and/or inappropriate they shouldn't have to buy their male coworkers chocolate just because they were born male.

It's not that easy. Societies have norms and expectations. You don't HAVE to say hello or thank you or whatever to people either, but you do it because it's a custom and an expectation, and because not doing so would change the way people look at you. There's a myriad of tiny social conventions we do almost unconsciously, and different societies have different degrees of pressure attached to them.

Of course nobody is FORCING these women to buy chocolate for their male coworkers. But it's become a social custom and an expectation, and it can be quite hard to just beyond that.

Try refusing to chip in for the next office party, for example, or something along those lines. Nobody is FORCING you to pay up, but people will definitely look at you differently if you choose not to. And there may be many reactions attached to that you don't want to experience, so you just suck it up and pay. Because that's what's expected of you.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Lol administrative professional. Just cause u call a janitor a custodial technician, doesn't make him not a janitor.

And every secretary I've ever seen is a lady. Men are the rate exception so referring to them as ladies is fine. Lmao.

Well for one actual secretaries are fairly rare these days. And while it is true that men can be as well, the few people I've known so far that actually employ bona fide secretaries always had women because they were men in their 60 and above. In modern company structures I rarely see them anymore though, usually the job gets done by young people of both genders and they just go by something-something assistants. Not to mention that alot of classical stuff these days is outsourced in the first place, where our previous CEO would have his secretary write his speeches, now some marketing company does it . Well maybe that is just my impression from working in a more industrial setting.

[Saverem]

If I don't get my giri choco my self esteem will take a nose dive and I will feel bad about myself.

[Warlockjen]

Lol administrative professional. Just cause u call a janitor a custodial technician, doesn't make him not a janitor.

And every secretary I've ever seen is a lady. Men are the rate exception so referring to them as ladies is fine. Lmao.

So by your logic, every man secretary is really a woman secretary. Sorry, I can't help stupid.

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It's not that easy. Societies have norms and expectations. You don't HAVE to say hello or thank you or whatever to people either, but you do it because it's a custom and an expectation, and because not doing so would change the way people look at you. There's a myriad of tiny social conventions we do almost unconsciously, and different societies have different degrees of pressure attached to them.

Of course nobody is FORCING these women to buy chocolate for their male coworkers. But it's become a social custom and an expectation, and it can be quite hard to just beyond that.

Try refusing to chip in for the next office party, for example, or something along those lines. Nobody is FORCING you to pay up, but people will definitely look at you differently if you choose not to. And there may be many reactions attached to that you don't want to experience, so you just suck it up and pay. Because that's what's expected of you.

And these women are trying to change the norm. Good for them, it's stupid and they realize it.

I think you are trying to explain to me as if I don't understand, sorry, I'm not your average forum idiot. Hopefully someone else who doesn't understand reads and it helps them.

As for paying for an office party, you can definitely say no and not go to it. If you are worried about what others think you should reconsider what you value more.

[Goat the SpaceMage]

Cant be given candy to everyone. Gets rid of the whole point.

Especially seeing they need them kids