What did you expect?
Even the most clueless 2019 player will have 100x more information and experience than the average vanilla player.
What did you expect?
Even the most clueless 2019 player will have 100x more information and experience than the average vanilla player.
Not really, no. TBC had some trully nasty 5 mans that no one really ran outside of atunement quests. Sure, Slave Pens/Mechanaar (with 3rd boss skip) were easy. Arcatraz though? Fuck that, finish the place, have the entire guild turn in the quest instantly and never return.
Cata HC's were dead easy if only you cc'd the correct mob. It was just that people that were used to rep-running lfg Wrath HC's overgeared to the gills for 12 months in 'just pull the instance' mode, and had lost all sense of what to do.
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He's right though.
I don't remember having any issues at all with Cata dungeons, even on release.
TBC dungeons weren't that bad either if you used CC like sheep/trap. Some of the big pulls in Shattered Halls etc. though were pretty nasty on the tank. I remember melee whining alot, because loads of mobs had close to 360 degree cleave (big naga dudes in Steamvault etc) and also melee didn't bring any CC, so most people took ranged.
- Ask for classic "no changes", cause it was "sooooo hard" (most people were virgin teenagers back then, everything was hard)
- Blizzard provides classic "no changes"
- Complain that classic "no changes" is too easy
- "Certified Retards" achievement completed
In other news, Cata heroics were absolutely insane and absolutely impossible to complete in LFG when they were first introduced, not the pale versions that came after the insane rage from the community who DID ask for "hard dungeons as in TBC" . Both the originals, but especially the Zul'Gurub ones. Oh boy, comparing those with classic dungeons is beyond silly.
First response to the rage was Ghostcrawler posting this design philosophy
https://www.wowhead.com/news=179780/...geons-are-hard
which was followed by a more insane rage and name calling and what not.
Second response was a full nerf, I remember at one time I was leveling an alt and I queued for a dungeon as a tank. Only when it was done and I got the achievement I noticed that it was heroic, even though I didn't want to do heroic as a tank because I thought they were hard as I remembered from my previous painful runs
They're supposed to be easy. The reason why people remember them being difficult is because everyone was a noob back then.
This is a faulty argument. Sure, modern encounters may have more mechanics but bosses in Naxx, AQ40 etc. still had plenty of mechanics; adding more complexity and orders to follow is a form of difficulty but not the only one.
In my experience, the majority of guilds raiding in vanilla were undergeared and often didn't have the optimal classes for each encounter. (you could also say there were a proportion of inexperienced/inoptimal players that needed to be carried - but this should be a natural thing as people have to learn etc.) So although the tuning for 40mans was quite gentle, most guilds came at them from a position of weakness which meant a lot of players had to maximise their performance in everyway, and thus it became quite difficult.
So although there may be some objective metric by which the raids were easier, in practice they were actually rather challenging.
But low level dungeons were easy? We'd wade through wailing caverns killing random shit with voidwalker pet tanks and no proper healers.
BRD hall with the stupid fires might be a bit challenging at low gear levels, and doing the UD Strath gauntlet with only 5 people was a challenge. But if you expected wailing caverns to sodomize you, well you might be expecting too much.
TBF, in some people's defence. Earlier versions of vanilla were in fact harder, Blizz repeatedly nerfed tf out of dungs and mobs over its course, some dungeons were pretty much overhauled. So plenty of legit vanilla players remember earlier versions of the game because that's when they're actively levelling.
So people were way worse at the game, earlier versions were harder than 1.11-1.12, as the result people feel that vanilla wow was super hard, but in reality it wasn't super hard, it's okay, but 1.11/12 is the easiest version of vanilla, and it's also the most short-lived one, TBC was looming, heck, people even gave up on Naxx because of it. So most people don't even remember 1.11-1.12, that's like last 6 months of vanilla.
I think that's why so many legit vanilla players are genuinely surprised by the easiness of Classic.
They never were hard, they were simply gear checks since most of your tanks mitigation is just having high enough armor/def stats. Same as your healer, all dependent on gear. The dungeon will be as easy/hard as your group is equipped. Mechanics are non existent.
Blizzard confirmed the numbers are correct. If I have to choose someone in this argument I kind of have to side with Blizzard even if they are the evil empire. They have an actual database. PS admit to educated guesses. The outdoor mobs to show confirmation that PSers were wrong in the educated guesses, even if they were decent, and usually on the lower end. It might not be a direct answer to elites in 5 mans but it is a pattern that's recognizable at the very least. It gives me comfort enough to project benefit of the doubt and I see no reason to tinfoil hat on the matter. In either case I am happy people reported it for Blizzard to check because thats a good thing. But the matter is pretty much put to rest. Unless we want to enter the realm of conspiracy which I guess you might.