I mean, if we really want to go down "no other race matters but humans" then yes he sure did them a good one but he cucked one race entirely and set a precedent for sacrificing Alliance members to make peace.
- - - Updated - - -
But you cant move onto "dealing with internal issues" without either forgiving the horde or "swallowing and moving on" or "biting the pillow" since you cant start dealing with internal issues while your external issues are so glaringly obvious and fresh.
The night elfs weren’t sacrificed for peace all of BFA was a because of what happened to them. Also Have you never heard of gilneas or thereamore? Both got the exact same treatment and they ended that war the same way as BFA there was no precedent set as the horde and alliance went though all of this already in mop.
And does that make that normal? Trading one allied nation after another for what? A peace that lasts till next expansion and means nothing. Its not like there is some booming trade between two faction that requires peace and so "financial elites" push for it. Peace ultimately means NOTHING and ends quickly.
Horde must die, in agony. That should be the "end goal" of Alliance since horde made its goal endless beating on the Alliance years ago. They cheer each time they get to mutilate and genocide Alliance races.
Because WHAT ELSE THERE IS TO DO EVEN?
I suppose I shouldn't expect reasonable views even in a thread about realistic Portrayals.
Your right there are no wealthy elite to push for peace for trade deals but you know what the alliance(SW most of all) do have? A common underclass who have a history of going hungry and rebelling due to extended wars. Stormwind was already sending farmers off to the war in 8.2 going for some nonsensical wiping out of the horde would further devastate the alliance like the war with the lichking did.
The night elfs may be able to continue the war indefinitely due to them pretty much only being the army left but the other alliance races (baring the goats and void elfs) have to deal with there underclasses and supporting the war effort.
Even ignoring the underclass though the alliance barley even have the forces needed to end the horde after N’Zoth the blood price would leave the alliance with pretty much no military if they could even do it would is unlikely.
Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-03-03 at 05:39 PM.
And if they wait they just waiting for another “surprise genocide” that will happen after a footmen steps on a goblin or some orc gets slapped for chopping wood in Ashenvale or something like that.
Its either going all in or being wiped out and reduced to nothing, erased over several generations.
Its nonsense. Four wars already, enough must be enough.
And Anduin didnt even negotiated anything from that peace. You think he even bothered to think about status of Ashenvale for example? That “resource stockpile” horde was trying to take over since forever?
So you’d take guaranteed destruction over the chance of future wars Mabye wearing them down? because that’s what trying to end the horde post 8.2 would be. More non solider would have to join the war effort, the underclass would starve like they did post wrath, the military would be decimated. Sure they might wipe out the horde in the end but there would be pretty much nothing left on the other side of that victory.
Ashenvale which is far more important to the whole Alliance then Teldrassil.
- - - Updated - - -
I mean, whole USSR had to starve, lose huge swaths of population and live on scraps and rat shit but they won the war and it was worth it since otherwise they would have eventually lose entirely and be wiped out.
And besides, there are also neutral factions to take care of “third party threats”.
And if they dont do that, wiping the horde out still better then waiting for another dagger to plunge into your back. It will drive you insane long before the strike comes.
Also there is still Ashenvale part you didnt replied to.
the USSR wasn’t fighting alone and they didn’t go for wiping out Every enemy nation just removing the ruling party and ending the war which is what happened in bfa.
there really isn’t. The cenarion circle would have more or less ended with the night elf portion fighting the horde with the alliance.And besides, there are also neutral factions to take care of “third party threats”.
The earthen ring is made up of active horde/alliance members with sylvanas threatening to pull support from it.
The argent dawn are worthless with horde/alliance support.
the rest are in the same boat as the dawn.
destroying your self is a far worse idea then returning to a classic-cata Cold War state and reviving and building strength.And if they dont do that, wiping the horde out still better then waiting for another dagger to plunge into your back. It will drive you insane long before the strike comes.
I don’t really see any point talking about ashenvale as we have no info on it’s state post BFA and people saying it was given up to the horde are just assuming that based on said lack of info.Also there is still Ashenvale part you didnt replied to.
Unless I missed some short story or such which is possible I guess.
“Building strength”? With whom? Anduin? He will never build any strength he is a moronic pacifist. Also even IF Alliance builds up its military then so will the horde simply making next war more devastating and since we know that Alliance is bound to take the first (and worst) hits in the game that just means more genocides, more pain and more unnecessary drama.
Just finishing this pointless struggle now is better.
- - - Updated - - -
USSR had famines before WW2 and Russian Empire had famines almost every next year but difference is that back in RE nobody just gave a fuck about some peasants starving to death and world wasnt yet “concerned” over anything or anybody outside their own borders.
so anduin didn’t attack lorderon or go to war with the horde? He wasn’t in favour of the void elfs light forged or kul tirans joining the alliance? I know that fanfic is fun and all but can we stick to reality?
mutually assured destruction is rarely the right choice and would be the only outcome assuming the horde didn’t win and of course ignoring the whole sylvanas shadowlands thing.Just finishing this pointless struggle now is better.
Gilneas is complicated, but it's clear the Alliance never abandoned it. The capital is reclaimed at least twice, once by the Alliance and later by a force of Gilneans, and the Alliance was engaged in naval warfare off its coast to keep the Forsaken from establishing another foothold. Battle for Azeroth implies that it has since been occupied by the Alliance, with the Horde's intent in Stromgarde being to use it as a launching point against Gilneas and at least two other mentions of attacks staged against the kingdom.
Theramore Isle and Northwatch Hold were casualties of a war Varian declared, the latter having been reclaimed by the Alliance since. I'm not sure what more the Alliance should be expected to do for them.
Do you mean during the shadowlands? Or after a recovery period? Because during there’s a scourge invasion going on, after recovering from bfa and shadowlands then ya I’d say attacking the horde first would make sense.
But continuing the bfa conflict would be a death sentence for the alliance with or without the shadowlands stuff.
That hardly the most unreasonable of Orcs didn't want them to join at all and had to be convinced by Sylvanas.
It's not like she ever did anything other than pay lip service to that. The Forsaken did what they pleased, they fought whom they pleased and they assisted whom they pleased. Even when Thrall put them under martial law in his sheer hypocrisy and Garrosh forbade them from using unaccepted strains of the Blight (or any strains of the Blight in Gilneas) the Forsaken used the Blight left and right and at most bullshitted the Orc overseers about how it's totally a weak strain and it's only to box the Worgen in. And when she got tired of the Kor'kron Sylvanas simply killed them.
There's a very significant difference between the bargaining position of what was an empire that just a month before had one of the strongest naval powers and even in decline was able to push proxy wars throughout Cataclysm and Mists and that of the blood elves, which were a decaying state of virtual addicts reliant on Sylvanas to hold their border at all. This is notwithstanding that Sylvanas didn't give a flying shit how much autonomy she gave Talanji because she was a plant for a blue man from another dimension. She had to push them through over the edge to even get them into the Horde. Sylvanas herself in turn had to had any kind of recognition from a power not at the time hostile to the Alliance, plus (debatably) material support to not fall. If she hadn't joined the Horde, she'd be hostile to everyone and be bound to be wiped out. More than the simple narrative difference though and how weak the blood elf position is relative to their Alliance counterparts in the night elves and the dwarves is that the issue actually narratively exists. Rommath excoriates Bob for submitting to Sylvanas' demands to send troops, while later on Garrosh complains about having to keep them going, Bob ponders defection when the Horde no longer suits his interests and even Thrall made the very joining of the blood elves contingent on them proving they could carry their weight. Likewise the Forsaken's political dependance until Cataclysm where the tail begins to wag the dog.
No such situation exists as regards the Alliance. The night elven and dwarf dynamics and the idea that the human king walked in and imposed an alliance command system on them after holding the king's daughter at sword point is never brought up. Whereas we know the reasoning for the contrived joining of the Forsaken to the Horde and the mindset of both the faction and the ones joining and we know much more about the blood elves' due to how heavily their narrative hinges upon this relationship, we still have no canonical explanation of the sequence of events that lead to the night elves joining the Alliance. The debate that @Raisei and @Eggroll had is, unlike the things just described, purely a fandom construct representing no positions that anyone in story has ever professed, not even a strawman. There is no equivalence between the Alliance and Horde in that regard at least not until BFA and the addition of the Highmountain and Nightborne who occupy similarly dubious ground but still stand above the Night Elf-Stormwind association by virtue of actually having an on-screen sequence of events leading to their joining rather than having their assimilation take place entirely over a menu screen.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.