Hello PPl,
I know that this things have been discussed on EJ before, but this was in the beta, can someone post some new info about which is better mangle or shred (with im mangle, glyphs bleeding target etc) damagewise?
Ty much
DST
Hello PPl,
I know that this things have been discussed on EJ before, but this was in the beta, can someone post some new info about which is better mangle or shred (with im mangle, glyphs bleeding target etc) damagewise?
Ty much
DST
"better" ?
You're gonna have to be more specific than that, I use both.
shred was, is and well ever be better than mangle, if mangle is applied on the target.
especially with the idol which increases your shred dmg by 203.
I actually do mangle crits for around 2.4k, normal ~1,2k.
shred does 2k normal and up to 4k crits.
I do neither have a cat spec, nor the shred idol, just "cat optimized gear".
and don't forget rake, rip, savage roar, ferocious bite, tiger's fury and so on and so on...
Mangle itself doenst increase shred dmg annymore, though bleed effects do if u have it talented, which most cat dps do haveOriginally Posted by xebtria
oh - jesus. forgot that. :<
than it is even more better then mangle. :>
mangle does increase shred damage,read the tooltip.....effects that increase bleed damage also increase shred damage....mangle increases bleed therefore increases shred
and in my experience shred is the greatest thing ever, 5.5k crits with that with mangle debuff and glyph seems quite op in my eyes
Bleeds themselves do not, affects that increase bleed damage do. Hence Mangle DOES still increase shred damage as does trauma. If you mangle once and never have a bleed on the target, your damage for shred will still increase.Originally Posted by Healingprick
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48572
This was true in the beta I believe, but for tank spec, is mangle spam still the highest dps? Obviously you would throw in a rake when it's down and SR/rip as combo points allow, but if shred is not talented, is it still lower DPE than mangle after increased ranks and the idol, etc.?
I'm not sure why people don't understand this... but mangle still increases shred damage. Shred says in its tool tip that anything that affects bleed damage affects shred damage... mangle affects bleed damage. Therefore mangle affects shred.Originally Posted by Healingprick
If logic doesn't make sense to you just look at the damage from normal shred, then mangle and look at the damage with mangle up.
I was hitting 7k+ shred crits raid buffed (mangle + bleed for rend and tear) and only 4k mangles.
For PvE dps Shred is way better.
Talented, shred si much better than mangle IF mangle is applied. Without talents, shred is worthlessOriginally Posted by CSJenova
PPl im not that noob. Just to clarify some things:
MANGLE DOES increase shred damage.(tooltip)
Bleeds DO increase shred damage (rend&tear tooltip)
And i know that Shreds crit for much more then mangles, but also a 100 energy FB on a bleeding target with clearcast crits for more then shred isnt it, so i need some more pro answers like dmg/energy because Shred costs much more energy then imp mangle. Also take in consideration the time you waste getting behind the mob (EJ has some interresting post about movespeed and dps in a raid)
Regards
DST
Rend and tear makes shred do more damage if a bleed is up, so you should have mangle and a bleed up when you shred.Originally Posted by CSJenova
I typically do mangle>rake>SR>shred>TF>shred>shred and then rip or refresh rake/SR/mangle as needed
This is what I had read and experienced pre-WotLK and post 3.0, but I wanted to make sure that was still the case. Due to work schedule and a wife I haven't gotten to 80 quite yet but I didn't figure the numbers would have changed so drastically that shred became viable without the talents. ThanksOriginally Posted by Selachii
Also, DST, I didn't quote you originally I was talking to a later poster who said mangle no longer affected shred at all which is not entirely true. I myself had forgotten about rend & tear as I'm more tanking focused and have not needed that talent to keep aggro off my friends, so I apologize for that inaccuracy in my earlier post.
even with 42 energy per shred and only 29 from mangle (tier6+tallent) 45-5-5-6.
mangle gives more CP's (chance for FB in rotation).
whats the DMG / energy for mangle and shred?
and ofc use shred on OOC procs.
It doesn't make sense to use the t6 bonus when you are talking about damage as there are plenty of upgrades when you get into naxx at the latest. But even if you were saying mangle is 29 energy instead of 34 shred still does about 50% more damage while not costing 50% more energy... so shred is still better damage/energy even with the t6 mangle bonus. Then you'd just have to weigh in whether you wanted the extra combo points. You'd be much better off getting real upgrades and losing the t6 bonus and shredding.Originally Posted by Macintyre
personally, im bear speced and therefore dont have the talent to reduce the energy cost of shred thereby making mangle better for dpsing on single tank bosses than shred simply due to energy.
Mangle hits for about 2.5k and crits for about 4.5k raid buffed. (average 3.5k)
Shred hits for about 3.2k and crits for about 5.4k raid buffed. (average 4.3k)
So look at this from in terms of energy
mangle = 3.5k/35 energy = 100 damage/1 energy
Shred = 4.3k/60 energy = 72 damage/1 energy
The point is between two points "energy per damage" and "energy per CP", sinc gcd down bother you spending all energy you got and since shred and mangle have no crit increasing talents.
1)Its Easy to calculate.
2) easy if you take one CP as an avergage damage poin (1/5) of fb or something.
ps. i agree to reapehavok.
shred is dead since 3.0, but ut takes gear and time to notice
until you find suitable upgrades for both slots of the leftover t6, manglespam beats shredding due to the insane energy->damage conversion of finishersOriginally Posted by Ferallee
Use Shred on OoC procs.
Just looking at the loot list provided here on mmo-champion there are plenty of blues you could replace your t6 with. you lose strength, but you gain more attack power than that strength would give even with kings. You also gain agility and hit/expertise in most cases.Originally Posted by furyform
Talented Mangle is better than talented Shred until you have nearly the best gear in the game... which no one has.