new 3.1.2 innervate

[Nangz]

now when i saw this new tweaking of the spell i thought great i can use it on anyone including paladins because of the base mana instead of spirit...

but that becomes a problem

what happens down the road at level 90 ish when we don't get as close to full mana with this spell

lemme explain

currently we have ~3.7k base mana
using this we would get back ~17k mana

in the next xpac we would have based on the level 70 base mana and level 80 values we would have around 4.5k base mana
considering i rarely saw a level 70 druid with more then 11k unbuffed max mana they would get a full mana regain from this spell

at level 80 i see druids with at least 17k mana easy

with level 90 i can guess 4.5k base and 21k max

which means this spell becomes less and less effective when the gap of base mana vs max mana becomes to large

i would suggest that it would keep the current 400% spirit requirements BUT it takes the caster's spirit into account or the caster's intellect which ever is higher and uses that number IF it's higher then the target's numbers of the same value

this makes it so that if a feral druid used this on a paladin (not much spirit)
it would quadrouple their int as mana regain

if it was a resto druid using this on a hunter the spirit or intellect (which ever is higher) would get changed to MP5 and on target would regain mana it would be a complex thing to work out how to use but it keeps the pvp and pve variability without running the risk of being out leveled

also could be fixed by giving innervate ranks..

such as 450% then 500% etc

considering at between 40-60s ur base mana is most of ur mana druids would be able to clear cast essentially for 20 secs with this change

[Chimpyman]

long way till we get to lvl 90 soooo stfu and dont make dumbass posts

[Amgyn]

hey remember when you had to spec to get innervate?

[Chimpyman]

ya actually i do...

[Ravenblade]

but that becomes a problem

what happens down the road at level 90 ish when we don't get as close to full mana with this spell

lemme explain

currently we have ~3.7k base mana
using this we would get back ~17k mana

in the next xpac we would have based on the level 70 base mana and level 80 values we would have around 4.5k base mana
considering i rarely saw a level 70 druid with more then 11k unbuffed max mana they would get a full mana regain from this spell

at level 80 i see druids with at least 17k mana easy

with level 90 i can guess 4.5k base and 21k max

Actually it's 3,496 base mana we got at level 80.

True it might be underpowered at level 90 but we do not know for sure yet. Also you do not seem to give developers much credit here, they probably are aware of this already and I wouldn't be surprised if the future of Innervate hasn't been set in stone with the upcoming change to this spell. Fact is for now, at level 80, this is a good solution in full compliance with current state of game mechanics which tend to change per major expansion/patch.

i would suggest that it would keep the current 400% spirit requirements BUT it takes the caster's spirit into account or the caster's intellect which ever is higher and uses that number IF it's higher then the target's numbers of the same value

this makes it so that if a feral druid used this on a paladin (not much spirit)
it would quadrouple their int as mana regain

if it was a resto druid using this on a hunter the spirit or intellect (which ever is higher) would get changed to MP5 and on target would regain mana it would be a complex thing to work out how to use but it keeps the pvp and pve variability without running the risk of being out leveled

also could be fixed by giving innervate ranks..

such as 450% then 500% etc

considering at between 40-60s ur base mana is most of ur mana druids would be able to clear cast essentially for 20 secs with this change

To whom are you directing your suggestions at? If it's Blizzard you'd have better luck in the public forums. Either way I am sure they have gone through alot of brainstorming themselves and as some certain trinket proves they surely have considered the "higher stat" solution as well. They probably have come to the conclusion that in the face of possible numerous exploits it wouldn't be a nice solution without nerfing the purpose of the spell itself. Yes, ranks are a solution, so would be introducing talents, a different mechanic which would allow partial reversion to the old mechanics etc. Point is, it is pointless to speculate how level 90 gameplay would be like, for all we know Earth might have been already invaded by a fierce alien Warrior race bent on the destruction of humankind by the time the new expansion should have been released to public.

[axio]

This game is based around the maximum level, right now its 80. Blizzard will make changes as they see fit, but changing the one innervate rank to do 450% of base mana versus adding a bunch of ranks for those leveling up from 40->80... which do you think is easier?

My guess is there will be either a new rank of innervate closer to 90 or the base mana at 90 will be adjusted to make it useful. Either way, there are no details on a new xpack (that I'm aware of) so its a ways off, now if your level 90 and this is still an issue then remake your post when the time comes.

[jonny1313]

I remember Ret Pallies for 3 weeks dominating everything while walking around with spells not balanced around level 70. It was fixed and I'm sure your points made with innervate will be fixed too come that time.

They are good though, props to you, and let us all lol@2nd posts disgrace to intellectual conversation.

[Nangz]

long way till we get to lvl 90 soooo stfu and dont make dumbass posts

suddenly it's dumbass to plan ahead?

maybe if blizz planned ahead more then they wouldn't have to "nerf" or buff as much as they do

really if they planned ahead as much as they say they do what bout that exorcism in pvp pain

i was level 30 and i got a 800 crit from that on me that's 90% of my health!!

so yea if i'm a dumbass cuz i don't want the druid's major way to get mana back fast nerfed in the future then well i'm stupid

[getefix]

suddenly it's dumbass to plan ahead?

maybe if blizz planned ahead more then they wouldn't have to "nerf" or buff as much as they do

really if they planned ahead as much as they say they do what bout that exorcism in pvp pain

i was level 30 and i got a 800 crit from that on me that's 90% of my health!!

so yea if i'm a dumbass cuz i don't want the druid's major way to get mana back fast nerfed in the future then well i'm stupid

crit chance recieved from crit rating/agility is changed every expansion. major patches are supposed to completely redesign spell rotations and spells to match the game designers new vision for each class. Planning for the future is good, but Blizz doesn't even attempt to plan lvl 80 spells around their next expansion.

[axio]

suddenly it's dumbass to plan ahead?

maybe if blizz planned ahead more then they wouldn't have to "nerf" or buff as much as they do

really if they planned ahead as much as they say they do what bout that exorcism in pvp pain

i was level 30 and i got a 800 crit from that on me that's 90% of my health!!

so yea if i'm a dumbass cuz i don't want the druid's major way to get mana back fast nerfed in the future then well i'm stupid

You can not gripe about them not planning ahead, lets see you try balancing all the abilities for every class with all the talents available and all the other variables that go in to balancing a class.

Innervate won't be forgotten and is something that can easily be noticed without having to have special numbers to prove it. Actually its easier now than it was when it was based off spirit if you ask me. If you really have a concern about something post it on the WoW Suggestion Forums, not on mmo where blizzard won't even bother reading it.

[Spiritus]

Your not planning ... your dreaming. There is a big difference from structuring games around the next step and structuring games around now. What you see in Wotlk is structured around the now, and very well so I might add. It's tough to create a large MMO and have it be as successful as it is. What your asking Blizzard to do is to redesign elements of a game so as to conform to every expansion flawlessly? First, don't you get that changes are what keep people playing this game? Second, I don't even see your point. I'm sorry but the ratio of base mana, as it pertains to innervate, DOES scale with level. I think what your trying to point out is that the gear we have won't scale well with the base mana (which isn't based on math, its based on logic)? I can guarantee you it will. Do you realize how many spells are based off your base mana? They would not implement such a thing knowing that it would fall down like a house of cards when they expand. In fact, I'd say that IS your future planning. Did you even do the math on the ratio between your benefits from innervate as your base mana scales, by your prediction, to 90? I'm really unsure where you got your 4.7k figure but our base mana improves by roughly 47.5% every 10 levels. If you apply this to our current base mana then you receive 5156 base mana at 90 for druids. 450% of base mana means we have a coefficient of 4.5 for every mana in our base mana. Thus, an improvement of our base mana by 1660 would improve our Innervate results by 7472 (1660 * 4.5). This puts our non-glyphed innervate at 23204. Again, I'm unsure where you got your figure of 21k but your comparison that druids had 11k at 70, then 17k at 80 would have a change rate of 65%; so, our mana pool would be roughly 28050 (predicting that Blizzard itemizes mana to scale).

I don't honestly know why I even wasted my time doing this but your not a dumb ass for planning ahead. Your a dumb ass for not planning the present.

[iLive]

Your post made me laugh ;D

[treasy]

Your not planning ... your dreaming. There is a big difference from structuring games around the next step and structuring games around now. What you see in Wotlk is structured around the now, and very well so I might add. It's tough to create a large MMO and have it be as successful as it is. What your asking Blizzard to do is to redesign elements of a game so as to conform to every expansion flawlessly? First, don't you get that changes are what keep people playing this game? Second, I don't even see your point. I'm sorry but the ratio of base mana, as it pertains to innervate, DOES scale with level. I think what your trying to point out is that the gear we have won't scale well with the base mana? I can guarantee you it will. Do you realize how many spells are based off your base mana? There would not impliment such a thing knowing that it would fall down like a house of cards when they expand. In fact, I'd say that IS your future planning. Did you even do the math on the ratio between your benefits from innervate as your base mana scales, by your prediction, to 90? I'm really unsure where you got your 4.7k figure but our base mana improves by roughly 47.5% every 10 levels. If you apply this to our current base mana then you receive 5156 base mana at 90 for druids. 450% of base mana means we have a coefficient of 4.5 for every mana in our base mana. Thus, an improvement of our base mana by 1660 would improve our Innervate results by 7472 (1660 * 4.5). This puts our non-glyphed innervate at 23204. Again, I'm unsure where you got your figure of 21k but your comparison that druids had 11k at 70, then 17k at 80 would have a change rate of 65% so our mana pool would be roughly 28050 (predicting that Blizzard itemizes mana to scale).

I don't honestly know why I even wasted my time doing this but your not a dumb ass for planning ahead. Your a dumb ass for not planning the present.

I love you.

[axio]

...

10/10, I lol'd

[Nangz]

Your not planning ... your dreaming. There is a big difference from structuring games around the next step and structuring games around now. What you see in Wotlk is structured around the now, and very well so I might add. It's tough to create a large MMO and have it be as successful as it is. What your asking Blizzard to do is to redesign elements of a game so as to conform to every expansion flawlessly? First, don't you get that changes are what keep people playing this game? Second, I don't even see your point. I'm sorry but the ratio of base mana, as it pertains to innervate, DOES scale with level. I think what your trying to point out is that the gear we have won't scale well with the base mana (which isn't based on math, its based on logic)? I can guarantee you it will. Do you realize how many spells are based off your base mana? They would not implement such a thing knowing that it would fall down like a house of cards when they expand. In fact, I'd say that IS your future planning. Did you even do the math on the ratio between your benefits from innervate as your base mana scales, by your prediction, to 90? I'm really unsure where you got your 4.7k figure but our base mana improves by roughly 47.5% every 10 levels. If you apply this to our current base mana then you receive 5156 base mana at 90 for druids. 450% of base mana means we have a coefficient of 4.5 for every mana in our base mana. Thus, an improvement of our base mana by 1660 would improve our Innervate results by 7472 (1660 * 4.5). This puts our non-glyphed innervate at 23204. Again, I'm unsure where you got your figure of 21k but your comparison that druids had 11k at 70, then 17k at 80 would have a change rate of 65%; so, our mana pool would be roughly 28050 (predicting that Blizzard itemizes mana to scale).

I don't honestly know why I even wasted my time doing this but your not a dumb ass for planning ahead. Your a dumb ass for not planning the present.

well u see i agree with most of those points but lets look at it from a different angle then

considering below level 58 (outland gear) most of ur mana is from base mana after this level it's mostly int.

now considering that this would give 450% of base mana then this would have been major mana and idk how u feel about leveling but this will be major problems for leveling well problems from blizz's point of view but that's over full mana aka unlimited mana for that time cuz it would give u major mana.

[getefix]

well u see i agree with most of those points but lets look at it from a different angle then

considering below level 58 (outland gear) most of ur mana is from base mana after this level it's mostly int.

now considering that this would give 450% of base mana then this would have been major mana and idk how u feel about leveling but this will be major problems for leveling well problems from blizz's point of view but that's over full mana aka unlimited mana for that time cuz it would give u major mana.

spells aren't balanced around leveling.

[Guyal]

Hai guys, i've heard rumours that there might be differences between spells at level 80 and the yet to even be announced level 90. Should I be concerned?

[Nangz]

yea cuz the major oh shit i'm gonna go oom on this fight spell may not be as effective as would be hoped for in the future

basically yall are saying that screw the future of druids but oh yea lets make it a spell for all classes and op at any post vanilla wow expansion i mean really

[Pascal]

It is important to the game that some things scale with gear. We're not convinced Innervate needs to be one of them. It will scale with level since your base mana changes when you level. (Not that anyone needs to be worried about that for the next few patches.)

They already answered your question.

If it turns out it's NOT good enough, I have this sneaking suspicion that it might be possible for them to fix it. Somehow, that reminds me of this time that the old version of innervate wasn't good anymore and they changed it from 400% of your mana regen, to 450% of base mana.

So don't panic just yet.

[Ravenblade]

yea cuz the major oh shit i'm gonna go oom on this fight spell may not be as effective as would be hoped for in the future

basically yall are saying that screw the future of druids but oh yea lets make it a spell for all classes and op at any post vanilla wow expansion i mean really

If the scaling at 90 or higher is your only concern then I'd say they have done a good job.