Read the fucking topic, nobody is saying disc is bad.Originally Posted by Soops
Read the fucking topic, nobody is saying disc is bad.Originally Posted by Soops
Who said disc priests are bad ? I didn't. I just say they're the class that less benefits from Val'Anyr. The 'healing not needed due to it' as you say does not increase the effectiveness of val'anyr's procs. THUS, it's not good to give that mace to a disc priest.People think disc is bad just because they dont/cant top healing meters. This is becasue HPS meters ignore all the mitigation and dont count the healing the 'not needed' due to it.
Originally Posted by Dark
now where is my prayer and circle of healing and prayer of mending?Originally Posted by Rodgar
Originally Posted by cryo85Originally Posted by ElementiumOriginally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
in 15 seconds, with the 4 set priest bonus, tailoring enchant on cloak, pandoras plea, eye of the brood which you should expect a priest that has farmed ulduar enough to get his legendary mace in the first place so your talking about the best gear here.
In 15 seconds the disc priest has ridiculous amounts of burst healing. Penance will be 6k+ crits min, a pw:s itself will be absorbing 6-7k, PI will be popped and if heals are done as they should be, then a disc priest will be on at least par if not much more than a holy pala.
At the end of the day, the best healer gets the mace and whoever the best healer is will bring the most use from it period.
To say disc wont benefit as much as other healers is wrong and false information and the majority of your numbers are completely wrong too.
Why are you ppl so retarded enough not to realise this?
Only idiots think disc is bad, I think its one of the most useful if not the most useful healing spec,Originally Posted by Soops
However the argument isnt whether r not to bring a disc priest to the raid, its whether or not the hammer will have the greatest effect when used by a disc priest, and the answer is a resounding "No in fact it will have the lowest possible effect if used by a disc priest"
I love disc, If i played a healer it would be disc, it has a unique and awesome healing style and can save a tank at a time when no other class could barring a extended cooldown ability. But all that matters to valanyr is the total amount healed including overhealing, and looking at those numbers a paladin is MUCH MUCH better, and every other healing class is somewhat better.
Unless your holy priest is on MT healing duty I answered just that question.Originally Posted by Phyrion
I don't give a flying **** if the raid members get any shields besides in a few situational fights, if they aren't idiots and don't step into fires non stop then those shields belong on the MT.
I'll be leaving the discussion since it seems that general thinking here is that HPS > all which is false. There are healing niches, if you minimize the damage on the MT, you get to bring another dpser or use another raid healer. That's what Discipline will do. Casting bubbles for 15 seconds on entire raid when there's no damage is plainly dumb and does nothing. A paladin doesn't mitigate near enough damage as disc priest, I won't bother to prove it since there's way too many wws parses out there that prove it.
Good luck in the discussion and to the OP - my personal opinion is that your GM knows what he's doing. If it's not a problem, tell us how it feels to play once he completes the mace and swaps the spec.
Oh by the way, I guess that it totally rocks having a Holy Priest with Val'Anyr healing Vezax hard mode. Oh wait...
You need to take into account the class as a whole. A Disc priest may heal for less, but thats because they dont need to heal as much due to our mitigation abilities and talents. On raw absorption figures the disc priest looks worse but its not really. But the mace would improve any healer for a similar amount taking into account the whole class mechanics.Originally Posted by Asgard
I have no hope ever of attaining this so im just here for the discussion rather than anything else. ;D
Have you ever fought mimiron or freya on hard mode, there is a TON of unavoidable aoe damage, the only two fights even remotely comprable in difficulty to these where tank damage is an issue are Algalon and 0 keeper yogg, almost no guilds, even those who get legendary maces will ever down 0 keepers, You could definately make an argument for giving it to a main tank healer for algalon but if you do give it to a priest that priest had better be planning on being a raid healer, because if not you just misused 30 shards pretty horribly.Originally Posted by iglocska
which will reslut in a 0 val'anyr bubble.a pw:s itself will be absorbing 6-7k
@All retards who can't read : Nobody here is saying disc is bad, or not on par with other healers. Disc is a really powerful healer in a raid, one of the best imo. But, in order to min-max Val'Anyr, you've got to chose the healer who will be able to get out the maximum of HEALING (which does NOT include ABSORBS) in 15 seconds, wether it is on a tank or on the raid. And to fulfill this role, the disc priest is your worst choice. Yes, the mace is awesome for a disc priest. Yes, a talented disc priest will make good use of it. But still, an equally geared and talented Holy paladin / Restodruid / Restocham / Holypriest will make ALOT more use of the proc. Do you Disc priests even undesrtand your class and the proc ? You've got a ton of damage reduction, damage absorb and mitigation that you bring to the raid. If you'd be making the same HPS as other healers PLUS having those absorbs, you'd be clearly overpowered. This is why you've got lower HPS than any other healing spec and this is why you will be the healing spec that will benefit the least from the mace's proc.
NO.But the mace would improve any healer for a similar amount taking into account the whole class mechanics.
Holy paladin : 100% of his healing IS healing, so 100% of his healing will go into bubbles
Resto druid : same
Resto sham : same
Holy priest : same
Disc priest : A certain amount of his healing is in fact absorb, which will NOT increase the effectiveness of the proc, so the proc will be lesser.
Originally Posted by Dark
HPS is not > than all, but valanyr is alot like recount in that it doesnt take absorbs into acount, making HPS a very useful factor in determining the usefulness of val'anyrOriginally Posted by syanid
" A paladin doesn't mitigate near enough damage as disc priest,"
NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THIS, what they have said, and is true, is that in a 15 second window a paladin will build a bigger val'anyr bubble and will do more mitigation WITH VAL'ANYR, if you have an argument against this claim please let me know, explain how 7 15-25k heals is less total healing than 2 penances 15-25k and maybe 5 or 6 flash heals 3k flash heals
but the fact of the matter is that a GOOD priest who has this mace will spec disc for fights where tank damage is key and holy for fights where raid damage is. Using the mace situationally to it's greatest advantage. If you give it to a holy paladin you don't have that flexibility.
A disc priest is going to get better use out of it on some fights, a holy priest on others, but OMG!!11! There is this thing called "Dual specs" and that will enable a priest to get the most use out of it for the benefit of the guild that fed him shards by being flexible to the encounter. Sometimes, sure that will be holy, but sometimes it will be disc too.
I never realized till today how truely stupid some people are.
so the shield doesnt 'add' to the proc with the mace...BUT, its still a 8k shield, this gives priests the 4 set bonus. You cant not count the 8k shield from a pw:s coz at the end it is still adding to the reduction on the tank so it must still be counted for as a 'heal' in itself.
The Valanyr is an 'absorption shield'.
With disc priests, with divine aegis at t9 this will already be at 40%. a pw:s on top of this absorption will be another 7k shield on top of divine aegis. In 15 seconds worth of the proc, a PI on the priest, and all this other mitigation on the tank already, thats a LOT of dmg absorbed so less qq about disc priests not 'pumping out as much as a holy paladin' and disregarding are actual absorption heal which is one of our primary spells.
tbh tho, we still got the o shit button wen there is lots of aoe and the mace procs to get in a divine hymn and see some nice shields all over the raid
It's all bull. The Shield from Val'anyr is limited to 20k. So as long as the caster is able to pull of ~130k raw heal in 15 Seconds, there is no "My Val'anyr Shields are better than yours!" Nuff said!Originally Posted by evoslayer
to be purly on topic, it is better for holy. Holy Heals, disc absorbs.
Pondering returning.
Nikoll - Retribution Paladin
There is no way a disc priest can put out 130k healing in 15 seconds.Originally Posted by Sphyx
And you assume that a target who's getting healed for 130k in those 15 seconds is not taking any damage at all?Originally Posted by Sphyx
Too many mongs in thread, off for breakfast.
Let's dumb down a little more :
Val'Anyr's proc pretty much increases your heals by 15% (in a preventive way) for 15 seconds.
Val'Anyr's proc pretty much increases your absorbs by 0% for 15 seconds.
Holypal/Druid/Sham/Holypriest heal. They get a 15% increase when the mace procs.
Discpriest heals and absorbs. They get a less than 15% increase when the mace procs.
Obvious but :
15 % > Anything under 15%
Originally Posted by Dark