Trying out Fire, could need some help

[lperik]

First post, hi guys!

Been playing frost since I hit 110, trying out fire now and got some questions. I only play PVE and mostly 5man dungeons so keep that in mind for my questions

*Cleave/AOE: I think Im doing something wrong on cleave and aoe as I do very little dmg, specially before 4+ targets. I use the same rotation for both: My opener is living bomb -> phoenix flames -> dragon breath (got legendary ring who gives my haste) -> fire blast (giving hot sreak) -> fire ball -> pyroblast at the same time, then start from the top again. Is this wrong?

*Flamestrike: At how many mobs while doing aoe do I start using flamestrike instead of pyroblast when I have hotstreak?

*ST(boss) opener: Fireball till it procs (no time to precast pyroblast in mythic+ as tank rushes) -> fire blast -> combustion -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> flame on -> fire blast -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> phoenix flames -> pyroblast -> phoenix flames -> pyroblast. Usually gets another proc and use last phoenix blast for hot streak again. Is the opener correct?

*Pyrofishing: When I get heating up from fireball I cast fireblast so I get hot streak. Do I then cast pyroblast straight away or always cast a fireball first while hot streak is up?

*Phoenic flames: If flameblast is on CD and I get heating up proc while Im already is casting my next fireball, do I cancel my fireball to cast phoenix flames so I get hot streak?

*Stats: For 5man dungeons, is the correct order crit->mastery->haste=versality? My current stats is crit: 56%, haste: 8%, mastery: 17%, versality: 1%. How does my stats look?

Artifact Traits: I took golden trait pyretic incarnation first, and got phoenix reborn trait today. What route should I take next? Burning Gaze -> Aftershocks, or Reignition Overdrive -> Blast Furnace?

*DPS: Im ilvl860 and for a 3min fight on ST raiders dummy in class hall I get burst: 340k, sustained: 210-230k. This is without any pots/flasks/potions. I also use incanters flow for now as Im new to fire and will focus on rotation, plus its alot of moving around in mythic+. Is the ST dps good or too low at my ilvl?



Alot of questions, appreciate all anwsers

[Nico3337]

when do you use rune of power? your stats should be fine for doing some decent damage for your ilvl

also you don't cast fireball until it procs, you cast once and hope it crits
if it crits and you have bl:
RoP->Pho+combu->pyro->fb->pyro->fb->pyro->flame on->fb->pyro->fb->pyro->pho->pyro->pho->pyro

if you don't have bl you probably won't get off all your pho before RoP runs out, and then you cast your second RoP.

if the first doesn't crit, the same thing, except you use a fb after your pho+combu

Atleast that's how I remember it off the top of my head.

if you are in a mythic+ dungeon and you are about to do damage to a pack, you cast Living bomb ->RoP then combustion rotation

[Nico3337]

For pyrofishing: FB isn't on the GCD and can be cast while other spells are being cast. As such you should cast another fireball after you get one to crit, FB during that cast and then pyro as the cast ends.

For your opener: Fireball til crit -> phoenix -> ROP -> combustion -> pyro -> fb -> pyro -> fb -> pyro -> flame on -> fb ... etc. Of course some of the pyros may auto proc Hot streak which modifies it somewhat, but that's the basic idea.

you don't want to sit on your combustion for multiple seconds fishing for a crit, you just use it so you can use it as many times as possible during the fight

[Nico3337]

There are very few fights where that extra cast or two will make a huge difference in the number of combustions you'll get. Yes, you could blow some phoenix's early if you had to though.

yeah true, I guess I'm mostly basing it on the mythic raid fights that usually lasts 4-6 minutes. I just really don't like sitting on combustion when I'm using kindling, in mythic+ dungoens you just want to use it as many times as possible to shorten the duration of the dungeon as much as possible

[Deleted]

First post, hi guys!

Been playing frost since I hit 110, trying out fire now and got some questions. I only play PVE and mostly 5man dungeons so keep that in mind for my questions

*Cleave/AOE: I think Im doing something wrong on cleave and aoe as I do very little dmg, specially before 4+ targets. I use the same rotation for both: My opener is living bomb -> phoenix flames -> dragon breath (got legendary ring who gives my haste) -> fire blast (giving hot sreak) -> fire ball -> pyroblast at the same time, then start from the top again. Is this wrong?

*Flamestrike: At how many mobs while doing aoe do I start using flamestrike instead of pyroblast when I have hotstreak?

*ST(boss) opener: Fireball till it procs (no time to precast pyroblast in mythic+ as tank rushes) -> fire blast -> combustion -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> flame on -> fire blast -> pyroblast -> fireblast -> pyroblast -> phoenix flames -> pyroblast -> phoenix flames -> pyroblast. Usually gets another proc and use last phoenix blast for hot streak again. Is the opener correct?

*Pyrofishing: When I get heating up from fireball I cast fireblast so I get hot streak. Do I then cast pyroblast straight away or always cast a fireball first while hot streak is up?

*Phoenic flames: If flameblast is on CD and I get heating up proc while Im already is casting my next fireball, do I cancel my fireball to cast phoenix flames so I get hot streak?

*Stats: For 5man dungeons, is the correct order crit->mastery->haste=versality? My current stats is crit: 56%, haste: 8%, mastery: 17%, versality: 1%. How does my stats look?

Artifact Traits: I took golden trait pyretic incarnation first, and got phoenix reborn trait today. What route should I take next? Burning Gaze -> Aftershocks, or Reignition Overdrive -> Blast Furnace?

*DPS: Im ilvl860 and for a 3min fight on ST raiders dummy in class hall I get burst: 340k, sustained: 210-230k. This is without any pots/flasks/potions. I also use incanters flow for now as Im new to fire and will focus on rotation, plus its alot of moving around in mythic+. Is the ST dps good or too low at my ilvl?



Alot of questions, appreciate all anwsers

As you notice in the responses already posted, there are several options with no clear winner as it always depends on certain factors. In general, your rotations are solid.

For <4 target AoE, there isn't really an order, just make sure you maximize the LB damage, if you can include RoP before you also rain PF in mobs (and try to wait for them to be stacked).
I believe the discussion for Flamestrike is still not over, but in general 4 or more targets should net close to equal if not higher damage in use.

Don't "pyrofish" anymore, just keep casting fireball and chain your pyro's when you get them. If you are heating up, use Fire Blast during the cast then fire the pyro at the end of fireball cast and continue casting your next Fireball.

Don't cancel casts.

If you are at 3 stacks of PF / you don't have a FB you can opt to use PF after a Fireball cast to try and trigger heating up / pyro so you should have FB before the next end of your fireball cast, meaning you can do a FB+Pyro that way.

Statwise, yes, maybe put Versa a little higher as taking less damage is favourable in M+. DPS looks okay, but your peak burst should be a lot higher. Also, Rune of Power is really too strong not to use at the moment. The faster you get it into your flow the better.

Good luck!

[Deleted]

For your opener: Fireball til crit -> phoenix -> ROP -> combustion -> pyro -> fb -> pyro -> fb -> pyro -> flame on -> fb ... etc. Of course some of the pyros may auto proc Hot streak which modifies it somewhat, but that's the basic idea.

That's not the correct opener.

Without the Sinew you:

pre-pot -> pre-cast FB -> RoP -> Combustion +-> PF -> [if FB didn't crit you FBlast] -> Pyro -> Fblast -> Pyro -> Fblast -> FLAME ON -> Pyro -> Fblast -> Pyro -> Fblast -> Pyro -> PF -> Pyro -> PF -> RoP -> regular spell priority.

[ramenkoenig]

For once, you get additional mastery when using combustion resulting in higher ignite damage. Also, you want combustion and RoP to perfectly overlap. What is 1 extra second of combustion good for if you use it to cast your second RoP.
Sounds like you need a better working brain.

[Deleted]

Why would you combustion before using 100% crit spells/abilities? They dont' benefit from it... Sounds like you need a refresher on the class.

The point is you use PF inside of RoP and not before it, as you incorrectly suggested (which baffles me, since any mage worth its money knows you want to cast PF inside RoP). Also, you do not "Fireball till crit" (baffled again, considering the amount of accessible online guides that explain this in detail).

As for casting Combustion before you PF or after: It doesn't affect the burst rotation at all since you won't be able to squeeze that last PF into Combustion anyway.

I wonder who needs a "refresher on the class" here ^^

altered-time is that way. Quickly, before you say anything else that makes people want to /facepalm.

[Lioo]

I can advise you to start using Rune asap. It is one of the most important things in fire rotation.

[Deleted]

You're wasting combustion bottom line. And you shouldn't be trying to PF during that first combustion anyway...

Go do your homework son, you've said enough stupid things to last you a month.

Infracted.

[Slykz]

You're wasting combustion bottom line. And you shouldn't be trying to PF during that first combustion anyway...

Considering the amount of mastery you get from combustion then yes, you do want to PF inside combustion and not outside.

[lperik]

Thank you for all the answers! This seems like a good community as so many responded so fast (even if not all agree on what`s best)

Did a test with RoP on raiders dummy in class hall now, went from 340k till 375k burst. Sustained went from 210-230k till ~245k dps. Its just that the rotation I wrote in the first post is mucle memory, but with RoP I constantly press the wrong buttons as its stressful with a new rotation (managed after 3times to do it correct so I could post the dps-increase above ) Can imagine it will be alot more stressfull in actual dungeons as well when I have to react fast + run around!

Do you guys use Dragon`s Breath at all on aoe? Feels like a dps loss to me, even with the 10sec with 15% haste I get from my legendary ring. If you do use it, at how many mobs do you start using it on?

[Deleted]

Thank you for all the answers! This seems like a good community as so many responded so fast (even if not all agree on what`s best)

Did a test with RoP on raiders dummy in class hall now, went from 340k till 375k burst. Sustained went from 210-230k till ~245k dps. Its just that the rotation I wrote in the first post is mucle memory, but with RoP I constantly press the wrong buttons as its stressful with a new rotation (managed after 3times to do it correct so I could post the dps-increase above ) Can imagine it will be alot more stressfull in actual dungeons as well when I have to react fast + run around!

Do you guys use Dragon`s Breath at all on aoe? Feels like a dps loss to me, even with the 10sec with 15% haste I get from my legendary ring. If you do use it, at how many mobs do you start using it on?

You'll get used to it, don't worry. Dragon's Breath should be cast at 3 targets or more. If you have the legendary head, it's also a DPS increase to use it in your single target rotation.

[Deleted]

i wrote you a macro for your opener:

/castsequence reset=30 Fireball,Rune of Power,Phoenix's Flames,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Flame On,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Pyroblast,Phoenix's Flames,Pyroblast,Phoenix's Flames,Pyroblast, Rune of Power

you have manually insert comb after RoP and do a manual fireblast if your precast fireball doesnt crit.

[lperik]

i wrote you a macro for your opener:

/castsequence reset=30 Fireball,Rune of Power,Phoenix's Flames,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Flame On,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Pyroblast,Fire Blast,Pyroblast,Phoenix's Flames,Pyroblast,Phoenix's Flames,Pyroblast, Rune of Power

you have manually insert comb after RoP and do a manual fireblast if your precast fireball doesnt crit.

Ty Got it to work when the fireball crit, but if I had to do a manual fireblast the sequence stopped as the macro tried to do another fireblast while both where on CD (at least I guess thats why it stopped). It worked when I cast a second phoenix`s flames instead of fireblast if fireball didnt crit, but that took so long it became a dps loss.


Either way, I tried the rotation you wrote "manually" and managed to burst up to 470k dps on my opener without any buffs! How does that sound at ilvl860?

[Deleted]

Ty Got it to work when the fireball crit, but if I had to do a manual fireblast the sequence stopped as the macro tried to do another fireblast while both where on CD (at least I guess thats why it stopped). It worked when I cast a second phoenix`s flames instead of fireblast if fireball didnt crit, but that took so long it became a dps loss.


Either way, I tried the rotation you wrote "manually" and managed to burst up to 470k dps on my opener without any buffs! How does that sound at ilvl860?

It's a bit low mate. You should be bursting between 600-800k. I wouldn't use macros either. Just practise your opener on a dummy until it becomes an automatism. Maybe start with an easier form:

RoP -> PF -> Combustion -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FLAME ON -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> PF -> Pyro -> RoP -> PF -> Regular rotation.

When you can do this flawlessly, try opening with a Fireball instead.

[lperik]

It's a bit low mate. You should be bursting between 600-800k. I wouldn't use macros either. Just practise your opener on a dummy until it becomes an automatism. Maybe start with an easier form:

RoP -> PF -> Combustion -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FLAME ON -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> PF -> Pyro -> RoP -> PF -> Regular rotation.

When you can do this flawlessly, try opening with a Fireball instead.

Tried that rotation now, landed me on a 450k burst.

If I am supposed to go even higher with that opener (or the one with fireball first) on my ilvl it have to be stats or traits that are wrong?

Stats: crit: 56%, haste: 8%, mastery: 17%, versality: 1%

19 Traits: I took pyretic incarnation golden trait first, and got phoenix reborn golden trait today. What route should I take next? Burning Gaze -> Aftershocks, or Reignition Overdrive -> Blast Furnace?

[Deleted]

Tried that rotation now, landed me on a 450k burst.

If I am supposed to go even higher with that opener (or the one with fireball first) on my ilvl it have to be stats or traits that are wrong?

Stats: crit: 56%, haste: 8%, mastery: 17%, versality: 1%

19 Traits: I took pyretic incarnation golden trait first, and got phoenix reborn golden trait today. What route should I take next? Burning Gaze -> Aftershocks, or Reignition Overdrive -> Blast Furnace?

https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=4&t=2553

All your questions are answered here

Enjoy!

[lperik]

Tried some dungeons now, RoP rotation is getting there

And got another trait (Burning Gaze), burst on dummy w/o buffs is now over 500k.

Thank you guys for helping out!

- - - Updated - - -

7.1.5: Perhaps I just should stick to frost till patchday then. No point in learing new rotation if it all changes soon anyways.

Btw, when will patch come, next week?

[nickseng]

Tried some dungeons now, RoP rotation is getting there

And got another trait (Burning Gaze), burst on dummy w/o buffs is now over 500k.

Thank you guys for helping out!

- - - Updated - - -

7.1.5: Perhaps I just should stick to frost till patchday then. No point in learing new rotation if it all changes soon anyways.

Btw, when will patch come, next week?

Not till January at the earliest, so unless you plan to hold for months.