How will Holy PvE be performing after 4.3 changes?

[Aleksej89]

What is your opinion on how will Holy in PvE perform after all the buffs in 4.3?

Here is a link to official 4.3 PTR patch notes: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3608419

Seems like decent buffs, but will they be enough to make Holy perform adequately in PvE?

[Deleted]

I copied my priest to ptr and found the buffs quite nice. Especially the reduced cd on Divine Hymn is awesome for raids. Although holy performed not bad for 4.2, I have the feeling that disc will stay the stronger spec for 4.3. For nomal content it doesn't matter that much but for DS HC I think we will see same as FL HC, where many priests chose disc. Personally I really like holy for PvE and disc for PvE so I will try to defend my holy cow as long as possible ^^

[kinetiks]

I don't understand why they'd up Guardian Spirit healing bonus from 40% to 60%. 40% is more than enough.

[Themos]

I don't understand why they'd up Guardian Spirit healing bonus from 40% to 60%. 40% is more than enough.

It doesn't happen often, but there is this an ugly gray area of when it is used and you're expecting a killing blow to set it off and heal someone up to 50% or full health if it crits. On tanks in PvE, a nice streak of avoidance prevents it from firing. In PvP, smart opponents will break off and attack something else. Leaving your GS target at very low health and a really ugly graphic of wings that overlay the screen and don't spin with the player.

5 seconds left... do you wait it out and bank on a killing blow?
4 seconds left... oh come on ... KILL HIM
3 seconds left... fml if he doesn't die soon
2 seconds left... *spammy* heals
1 second left.... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Hey maybe it was targeted at that scenario.*


*I honestly got nothing. It doesn't strike me as a particularly noticeable change in either PvP or PvE.

[Vook]

Tbh, I'm kind of worried about Holy for 4.3. Right now, its mana regen seems to suck compared to disc. IE, 4healing H rag, mana is really tight as Holy, but a joke as Disc. Like, I wear non-spirit pieces and a DPS trinket for Disc and mana is still a joke. I really want to go mainspec Holy on 4.3 because of the buffs, but it doesn't look like that will happen with Holy's crap regen.

[FieryBull]

You need a shit-ton of spirit to make holy good, but when you have it, it's really really good. Personally I'll stay disc since I'm the dps offspec bitch, and I won't have enough spirit. (10-man raider)

[Whiskeydave]

You need a shit-ton of spirit to make holy good, but when you have it, it's really really good. Personally I'll stay disc since I'm the dps offspec bitch, and I won't have enough spirit. (10-man raider)

Think if it this way, Holy regen and the specs Divine Hymn buff are like foreplay and climax. Without the former the other isn't likely. I'm just not sure if its worth the effort and may just go back to Disciplining myself.

[Vook]

You need a shit-ton of spirit to make holy good, but when you have it, it's really really good.

Every single piece of my gear in my holy set has spirit on it. Using the Sinestra bracers because there is no 391 spirit bracer, and using the H Conclave belt because there is no 391 with spirit on it. Full spirit items with double regen trinkets and regen is still shit? Whereas Disc is reforging out of spirit and wearing non-spirit pieces? Something's not right here.

[KaPe]

Every single piece of my gear in my holy set has spirit on it. Using the Sinestra bracers because there is no 391 spirit bracer, and using the H Conclave belt because there is no 391 with spirit on it. Full spirit items with double regen trinkets and regen is still shit? Whereas Disc is reforging out of spirit and wearing non-spirit pieces? Something's not right here.

Same here pretty much. (well, no pure spirit gems and SoW+Cho trinket). At least belt has replacement - I think.

Holy didn't really get any massive buffs on PTR, other than Hymn. It is a great spell, but it's "only" a raid cooldown. When it comes to regular healing, not much has changed. Best "buff" we got was nerfing Resto Druids, so we seem stronger by comparison. However, Pallies new Radiance is huge, so it's probably they who will be the best AOE healer.
GS buff is meaningless. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't notice any tank damage focused fights, so it hardly matters if you get 40% bonus healing or 60.
Holy Word buffs - again, no real tank damage fights, so why bother with Serenity. Sanctuary mana reduction is "nice", though not really that important. It has huge cooldown, after all.

Still, Divine Hymn and not feeling like gimped Druids might make Holy a viable option. Shamans are as 'bad' as they were before, as their buffs are largely meaningless, Druids got nerfed and Paladins... well, that's a tough one. HR was crazy last time I saw it, and they get a tier bonus that makes it even better. It remains to be seen.

[iero]

To be honest i know holy has a a big mana issue problem and while i see people posting about going all out spirit and still having problem, i cant help but think its the way your healing which must eating mana like no tomorrow. I raid 25 man and we're 6/7 hc and with 25 man you have a lot more people stepping in bad and i basically always come in the top 2 or 3 by being holy i am definatly not holding my guild back because im not disc.

If people enjoy being holy (as i have done since TBC) then don't be put off by the fact that a decent resto druid can out heal you, besides even i out heal our resto druid sometimes :P. I guess what im tying to say is that loads of people go disc when they prefer holy when really being holy is just as good! Especially with these new buffs with GS getting buffed to be brought more into line with PS and divine hymn finally being decent enough to be called a raid CD. Personally i think Dragon Soul is going to be a good raid content for us holy priests

[Vook]

To be honest i know holy has a a big mana issue problem and while i see people posting about going all out spirit and still having problem, i cant help but think its the way your healing which must eating mana like no tomorrow. I raid 25 man and we're 6/7 hc and with 25 man you have a lot more people stepping in bad and i basically always come in the top 2 or 3 by being holy i am definatly not holding my guild back because im not disc.

My mana issues are not a result of people getting hit by avoidable damage. And I'm very sure that I'm not healing wrong either.

Especially with these new buffs with GS getting buffed to be brought more into line with PS and divine hymn finally being decent enough to be called a raid CD. Personally i think Dragon Soul is going to be a good raid content for us holy priests

Buffing throughput by a small amount isn't going to help us not OOM. ("buffing throughput" as in, the sanc/GS 'buffs')

Holy is "just as good" as Disc in terms of throughput, yes, but in mana, it just can't compete at all. Seriously, I TRIED to do H Rag as Holy, and by P3 start, I'm oom. Sfiend+HoH+Conc pot used and I'm just about oom at that point. Whereas with Disc, I don't even use my sfiend at all until the start of P3 (for heroism). Or on Beth, I don't even NEED my sfiend there. The boss dies before I go under 20% mana. Same with Rhyolith, I don't use my sfiend at all. And Majordomo, I don't use my Sfiend whereas with Holy mana was getting a little tight.

Holy needs mana fixed, not throughput.

[Tihr]

Holy needs mana fixed, not throughput.

I disagree. Both need a small buff. Put Holy Concentration up to 35/40% and increase Spiritual Healing to 20/25%.

[Grizzlehorn]

I agree that Holy's regen can be problematic at times, but heroic Rag is a place that Holy does really well in FL. Per WoL it is roughly on par with Disc in 10 and ahead of Disc in 25...

[KaPe]

I disagree. Both need a small buff. Put Holy Concentration up to 35/40% and increase Spiritual Healing to 20/25%.

It was already nerfed once. What we need is actual spirit gear droping, not another buff/nerf cycle.[COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2011-11-17 at 04:48 PM ----------

I agree that Holy's regen can be problematic at times, but heroic Rag is a place that Holy does really well in FL. Per WoL it is roughly on par with Disc in 10 and ahead of Disc in 25...

Extremely predictable AOE damage = great for Lightwell. Randomly distributed damage in transition phases = CoH >>> PoH, unless you "luck out" and 5 Lava Bolts hit a single group. Of course, all that and Druids still stomp all over you. And Lightwell can't be placed properly in P4.

[Mikayo]

I actually had very little mana issues on H.Rag as holy - maybe I'm retarded. (with 2500'ish spirit)
I'll be giving holy a shot in 4.3 for sure. Gotta mix it up baby.

[Bradyznz]

I agree that Holy's regen can be problematic at times, but heroic Rag is a place that Holy does really well in FL. Per WoL it is roughly on par with Disc in 10 and ahead of Disc in 25...

Not sure what you're basing this on?
Raidbots shows Holy slightly ahead on 25man, with roles reversed (disc ahead) for 10man.

[Mazi]

Not sure what you're basing this on?
Raidbots shows Holy slightly ahead on 25man, with roles reversed (disc ahead) for 10man.

Most of this depends on raid comps though, with only 3 healers... a R Druid greatly lowers the output of a Holy Priest but a comp w/o one H Priest will be much higher, etc.

Holy performs exceptionally well on H Rag because most of the damage is sporadic, whereas Disc relies on preventing predictable damage.


As for 4.3 Holy is in a very good spot. Learn to use DH well and you'll be solid. As for Regen... we're fine. It sucks that we have to use 2200+ spirit when druids can walk around with 1200 and thus we're losing out on throughput stats but it is what it is. It's playable, stop sucking imo

[Vook]

As for Regen... we're fine. It sucks that we have to use 2200+ spirit when druids can walk around with 1200 and thus we're losing out on throughput stats but it is what it is. It's playable, stop sucking imo

I'm at 3100 spirit unbuffed in my Holy set. (3500 if I use Fiery Quintessence) I must be doing something horribly, horribly wrong if I'm having mana issues with a ridiculous amount of spirit.

[nobodysbaby]

You think you can survive with 2200k spirit as Holy in 4.3 hc raids, Mazi? 20% mana cost increase to CoH, massive AoE fights, Sanctuary.. I think far from it, I'll be aiming towards 4k

[zakaluka]

There's a hidden buff here, that has a tremendous effect on holy's healing efficiency.

With the original model, holy was intended to have BETTER healing efficiency than disc. As Ilvl got higher, at some point it flip-flopped and disc wound up with higher raid healing effic than holy. Pair that with a bigger mana pool and less need for spirit, and disc wound up with more muscle. Less spike, certainly, but more HPS because disc's mastery doesn't overheal under pulsing AoE, and higher raw efficiency anyway (without even considering overheal).

It's basically backwards in 4.2. Holy gets insane spike capability + pretty bad efficiency. Disc gets one spike every 2 minutes but outside that pretty bad spike capability, and really great efficiency, plus a much larger manapool.

The BIG thing that will fix this problem is the tome of light tweak. Note I'm talking about 25 man regarding sanc, but with 4 piece bonus we'll be able to roll a new sanc 1 second after the previous one expires. In a 25 man raid with 23 people stacked inside the sanc, that spell gets over 25 HPM - that's insane. Now also in chakra:serenity, hw:serenity does the same thing - 7 second cooldown with the 4 piece. Since the HW:Serenity crit buff actually works as intended for the first time since 4.0.6, our directed healing effic will also be competitive for the first time ever. Now, yes, I know you can't depend on crit for triage but it does have an extremely reliable effect on your overall healing efficiency.

Summary: holy's healing efficiency goes up a lot in 4.3. You'll see a pretty significant increase in sustained HPS, I'm pretty sure.

edit: regarding the CoH tweak, right now in 4.2 PoH and CoH get identical HPM but CoH is about 20% higher on HPS. What I'm saying is that the CoH cost increase doesn't hurt us that much - you'll just have to adjust your playstyle. Basically you won't be using CoH until you're really dumping HARD, and frankly that's when smart heals are most useful anyway. If you adjust this way, the CoH tweak won't hurt your mana noticeably. Remember that they did the same thing to druids and druids are STILL going to be casting WG on cooldown. Overall no major loss for us but a pretty significant nerf to druid AoE efficiency.