Unpopular opinion: J. Allen Brack was right

[Aelwe]

I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.

[Deleted]

He was categorically wrong and should have kept such bs to himself. Same goes for "don't you guys have phones?"

That being said, yes the overwhelming majority of people that will try classic out, will get to some level or other and decide it's not for them. A tiny minority of those that try classic will even reach MC and an even smaller fraction will play all the way through to Naxx.

With the amount of discussion and hype, whatever the outcome it will have been worth it for blizzard and quite a few players.

[slime]

If humans were logical, yes OP, I agree with you. But they aren't. There will be people that "play" vanilla even if they hate it just because 'its better'. WoW isn't even a hobby for most anymore.

[czarek]

I believe classic will be great success at begining. After few months or about year+- popularity will go down. I remember vanilla it was pain in the ass but tbh now everyone know how to play it. After those years i am absolutely sure gameplay will be much easyer for expercienced players. I know vanilla "eat" a lot of time and this is the bigger minus of vanilla.

And ofc there is a lot of vanilla players form private servers and they will move to blizzards servers back. I know some old players want back to WoW just becasue of vanilla.

[Deleted]

Seperate games, seperate teams and seperate resources.

If you like Current WoW, play current. If you like Classic, play classic.

Ive played Classic before, i know what im in for, im not missing any point.

If you want the next exp to be better then voice your concerns and offer suggestions on the forums and hope for them to listen. Just leave Classic alone, its not its fault current wow isnt fun.

[Aelwe]

Seperate games, seperate teams and seperate resources.

If you like Current WoW, play current. If you like Classic, play classic.

Ive played Classic before, i know what im in for, im not missing any point.

If you want the next exp to be better then voice your concerns and offer suggestions on the forums and hope for them to listen. Just leave Classic alone, its not its fault current wow isnt fun.

But that's what I'm getting at: why segment things when they could achieve something that worked for everyone? Of course that there will be people enjoying current WoW and people enjoying Classic, but why segment the community of an MMO game when there are solutions that could work for everyone?

[Bodakane]

The problem with classic is that once you've played through it, you'll be done.

[Perkunas]

I mean about the whole "You think you do, but you don't" thing.

Let me explain, I think everyone is missing the point with Classic, not just Blizz but also the community:

Going back to the vanilla experience, while it may be fun for a while, it's a stupid move, Blizzard probably has dedicated a lot of money (maybe not "new expansion" kind of money, but still it must have costed quite a bit) to recreate something that most people will abandon after a short time. Then they'll be able to say "See? We told you" and everyone will forget about it, when they could've easily done the right move.

People don't miss the actual vanilla game, they miss the experience: the slower leveling and gameplay, the harder difficulty, the sense of actually achieving things, the progression, etc.
But these are things that can be easily done or replicated in the current WoW, with some adjustements.

But going back to the full, brutal, boring vanilla experience? It's just crazy. I agree that a lot QOL improvements done over the years have taken away from the game, but a lot of them make a lot of sense and actually turn the game into a more enjoyable experience.
You can have a new expansions that shifts the gameplay more towards the classic experience but keeping improvements done over time when they make sense. They can even do this in a "Cataclysm" style xpac that changes the entire game, so the leveling experience is consistent with the top level content.

Instead they wasted resources on an experiment that will most likely fail and they just move on to give us another mediocre and bland xpac, no one will benefit.

Oh, and I'm sure that there will be some people perfectly happy with Classic, but quite honestly, they'll probably be a small minority of the playerbase.

Thanks! I' glad some schmuck on MMO Champion was able to tell us that taste in not subjective and that we're all fucktards for wanting the game to be a proper MMO again...

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The problem with classic is that once you've played through it, you'll be done.

Thanks, chief.

[Bodakane]

Thanks, chief.

WTF is up with the attitude?

I didn't insult anyone.

[Skulltaker]

The core message was right, the way he presented it was not. People want the vanilla experience, not vanilla itself. Sense of novelty, exploring an unknown world, etc. But nothing will bring back your first max level character, first MC run, first Stratholme wipe, first time seeing stranglethorn, and so on.

But, standing in front of a crowd and patronizing them by telling them 'you don't know what you want!' is subjectivly wrong, even though it is objectivly right for a great many people. PR wise, its plain stupid. Imagine a salesman, when you ask for a specific TV, and he'd tell you 'Your choice is idiotic, this is the superior product!'. Even though the other TV might be better thant the one you picked, most people wouldn't like the way they were told. The correct way would be 'great choice, but have you heard about this model? It has (list of perks).'

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WTF is up with the attitude?

I didn't insult anyone.

I think this was a sincere thank you.

[Perkunas]

WTF is up with the attitude?

I didn't insult anyone.

I didn't insult you, sport. Your opinion was noted and filed.

[Maglen]

But, standing in front of a crowd and patronizing them by telling them 'you don't know what you want!' is subjectivly wrong, even though it is objectivly right for a great many people. PR wise, its plain stupid. Imagine a salesman, when you ask for a specific TV, and he'd tell you 'Your choice is idiotic, this is the superior product!'. Even though the other TV might be better thant the one you picked, most people wouldn't like the way they were told. The correct way would be 'great choice, but have you heard about this model? It has (list of perks).'

Basically this. The customer isn't always right, but there are better ways to say it.

[Oneer]

The problem with classic is that once you've played through it, you'll be done.

To give my own 2c on this point, having run the gear treadmill through TBC to Legion 7.1 i'm actually fine with this, my own expectations are once Naxx is cleared & on farm the game will just be messing around with a group of mates and some beers in WPvP and BGs.

If you're starting from classic launch this summer that's a good few solid months of gaming entertainment that will be staggered over the content patches, I think the lack of progression only becomes a problem if the individual allows it to and in those cases i'd advise them to play retail.

[Bodakane]

I didn't insult you, sport. Your opinion was noted and filed.

I didn't say you insulted me, I said you had attitude, for no reason.

Learn to read.

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To give my own 2c on this point, having run the gear treadmill through TBC to Legion 7.1 i'm actually fine with this, my own expectations are once Naxx is cleared & on farm the game will just be messing around with a group of mates and some beers in WPvP and BGs.

If you're starting from classic launch this summer that's a good few solid months of gaming entertainment that will be staggered over the content patches, I think the lack of progression only becomes a problem if the individual allows it to and in those cases i'd advise them to play retail.

Exactly, it will be like a console game, shelf life wise, with exception that you'll need other people to play end game stuff, so as they fall away.....

[Celarent]

Of course that there will be people enjoying current WoW and people enjoying Classic, but why segment the community of an MMO game when there are solutions that could work for everyone?

Because, to paraphrase what PJ O'Rourke said about economics, this isn't a pizza, where if I have too many slices you have to eat the box.

Back in 2014, Blizzard cited more than 100 million having played WoW overall. That dwarfs the current subscription base, and even when you remove incidental and short-term customers, you're still left with a wildly large number of people who played WoW regularly and might play again.

It's no mystery that WoW's gradual changes over even the last 10 years have left it a very different game, or that the difference is why many remain former players, despite a strong enough interest among brave/desperate to seek the black market and get Blizzard's attention . . . and bring us to the point we're at now.

(Again, we can't lose sight of why Classic happened or what the current CEO said about it initially before circumstances changed.)

Of course, Blizzard is making this reclamation of customers harder by positioning Classic behind retail, but if Brack can recant, the current losing strategy can be reversed, too.

[XDurionX]

Of course he was right, but that's not what people want to hear.

[tikcol]

How about people stop telling others what they want or don't want and instead focus on what themselves would rather do.

People saying stuff like that are herd people, seeking refuge on others to justify themselves

[Oneer]

Exactly, it will be like a console game, shelf life wise, with exception that you'll need other people to play end game stuff, so as they fall away.....

It'll be interesting to see how Blizzard handle this, on one hand we know that private vanilla servers have been around with an active community for several years now however this trend may not translate into retail a few years down the line.

IMO I believe the most likely scenario is should Vanilla turn out to be a financial success they will forecast this scenario and look to release TBC servers at a specific timing window.

[Perkunas]

How about people stop telling others what they want or don't want and instead focus on what themselves would rather do.

People saying stuff like that are herd people, seeking refuge on others to justify themselves

Exactly. We got a hundred schmucks telling us we're wrong for having an opinion contrary to their sacred stance.

[banelocky]

I agree. People were just triggered at it because ,,HE THINKS HE KNOWS WHAT WE WANT BETTER THAN WE DO!!!,, but it's the truth.
People think that the feeling of playing Classic back in 2005 will be the same as playing it in 2019. They remember the awesome feeling of seeing a zone for the first time or stepping into Molten Core or riding their first mount and think it will be just as awesome when they play Classic in 2019. But when you do those things for a 2nd time in 2019 the novelty isn't there. They also forget the stupid sides of Classic like not every spec being viable for raiding/pvp , 15 year old graphics , no transmog , no catch up mechanisms , very simple raid bosses compared to today's standards , some classes having super simple uninteresting rotations , ... etc etc

I am 99% sure that when Classic launches in 2019 a lot of people will flock to it and then quit when the nostalgia wares of. Of the people that now think Vanilla is amazing, only the very small hardcore minority will keep playing after a few months and then maybe Blizzard and the community will realize that the costumer is not ALWAYS right.