Minority Tyranny: GOP Determined to Dismantle Popular Healthcare <Again>

[Milchshake]

Ongoing in: One Party Really Resents Poor and Middle Class America Having Healthcare.

Basically this is Republican lawyers in front of Republican judges, arguing that insurance companies shouldn’t be required to cover prescription drugs or preexisting conditions.
Why?
One judge basically says "the process they used to repeal the law couldn't actually repeal the they, thus they actually wanted to repeal the law." This was after congress failed to get enough votes to actually repeal the ACA.

So to spite congress and popular will, these judges say humbug.


Republican judges appear to side with Texas challenge to Obamacare

Two Republican-appointed judges on the appeals panel hearing a Trump-backed challenge to Obamacare — a majority of the three-judge panel — suggested Tuesday that they might side with a lower court judge who said last year that the whole law should be struck down.

Lawyers from the Trump administration and a group of Republican states squared off against attorneys from a coalition of Democratic states and the House of Representatives in a New Orleans appeals court to argue the fate of the Affordable Care Act.

If the challenge is upheld, it threatens to wipe away coverage for millions of Americans, as well as the law’s protections for those with pre-existing conditions. And it would do what Congress failed to accomplish in 2017 — take down Obamacare.

Three 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals judges — one nominated by President Donald Trump, one by George W. Bush and one by Jimmy Carter — heard the arguments. Because the case is before one of the most conservative appellate courts in the country, it is almost guaranteed to wind up in the Supreme Court.

The lawsuit against the ACA was brought by 20 Republican state attorneys general and governors, as well as two individuals — though the number of attorneys general is now down to 18 after Democrats took control of Maine and Wisconsin in the midterm election last year. The challenge revolves around the congressional decision to effectively eliminate the individual mandate penalty by reducing it to $0 as part of the 2017 tax cut bill. The mandate requires nearly all Americans to get health insurance or pay a penalty.

The Republican coalition, led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, maintains that the change rendered the mandate itself unconstitutional.

The states say that the voiding of the penalty, which took effect this year, removes the legal underpinning the Supreme Court relied upon when it upheld the law in 2012 under Congress’ tax power.

A federal judge in Texas agreed, ruling in December that the change invalidates Obamacare in its entirety. The law remains in effect while the case works its way through the courts.

Douglas Letter, arguing for the now-Democratic controlled House of Representatives, said that Texas and other states are exaggerating the impact of the law Trump signed in 2017 eliminating the mandate. Texas, he said, created a new excuse to challenge a law it doesn’t like, which was upheld in 2012.

“Texas said ‘HA! — you just did something unconstitutional,'” Letter said.

Even though the tax penalty is now $0, Letter argued, the choice people had still exists: buy insurance or don’t.

“The Supreme Court said unequivocally, either you shall maintain health insurance or incur a tax,” he said, adding that it doesn’t matter if that tax is $0.

“That means the choice is still there,” he said. In fact, he argued “there’s less coercion than there was before” to buy insurance.

Trump’s Justice Department wants law struck down
Notably, the Trump administration is not defending the law. Initially, it argued that zeroing out the penalty invalidates only two of the law’s protections of those with pre-existing conditions — specifically the provisions banning insurers from denying people policies or charging them more based on their medical histories.

But in a surprise move in March, the Justice Department said it now agrees with the December ruling that the entire Affordable Care Act should be struck down.

Trump is pinning his hopes on the court striking down the law, allowing him to fulfill his campaign promise to repeal it, but congressional Republicans are keeping their distance since it gives Democrats fodder to attack the GOP for not protecting those with pre-existing conditions — a hallmark of the landmark health reform law.


This is truly the Counter-Majoritarian Difficulty. When the party that lost the overall popular vote in the last two elections gets to dismantle popular government programs.

[Gestopft]

I sort of think that nothing could fast-track single payer in this country more effectively than this lawsuit succeeding. Not that I encourage the disaster that a full repeal of Obamacare would bring, but it would hit the GOP very hard if it happened

[Felya]

I sort of think that nothing could fast-track single payer in this country more effectively than this lawsuit succeeding. Not that I encourage the disaster that a full repeal of Obamacare would bring, but it would hit the GOP very hard if it happened

I think it’s the opposite. ACA is as close to universal coverage we can get, with a Democrat majority. I don’t think democrats have enough votes to pass universal coverage, even if they take the presidency and the senate. Trying to pass any universal coverage, that doesn’t include insurance companies, cannot pass without lobbying reform. Trying to do more than ACA, before removing insurance companies lobbying, is ‘putting the cart before the horse’...

Edit: Unfortunately...

[Grapemask]

Hey, if Republicans want to dig their own grave, go right ahead. Let's do it. Let them throw millions of people off of healthcare, and lose all of the additional policies that came with the ACA - everything from preexisting condition protection to calorie counts on menus. Let's watch Republican representation drop to numbers we can count on our hands. Let everyone see what happens when Republicans get to stack courts with extremists for a decade and block moderates. Fuck it, let's go fucking nuts.

[Fugus]

Two things.

1) The fuck-ups actually remove this, they give an even bigger push for Medicare For All from the populace. Currently, the ACA gives the spineless Democrats something to hide behind to avoid actually listening to their voters. They blow up that cover, they might actually have to actually push for Medicare for all since they said that they couldn't do the ACA. And....

2) When a rule change makes something illegal or unconstitutional, it isn't the entire thing that is unconstitutional, it is the rule change that is. So if these judges have an ounces of professionalism or patriotism in them, they will rule accordingly. For them to actually try and strike the ACA as illegal under that flawed logic, they have proven themselves mentally unwilling or incapable of performing their jobs as they just sold out their professionalism and their respect for this nation and the low for their own ideology and party. A change that could quickly come up to bite them thanks to #1.

[Zaydin]

There are some Republican strategists who are rightly pointing out that the GOP got clobbered on healthcare in the mid-terms so trying to do over the whole thing (Wonder why Trump isn't blocking this since I thought he was of the opinion that you don't get do overs) heading into another election is suicide.

[PACOX]

Repel Obamacare in 2020. We get singlepayer in 2021. Problem solved.

Healthcare is already ruined for 2020. Let the GOP remind voters who ruined it, them.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Repel Obamacare in 2020. We get singlepayer in 2021. Problem solved.

Healthcare is already ruined for 2020. Let the GOP remind voters who ruined it, them.

Of course when this blows up in the GOP's face, they'll attempt to play damage control by blaming the Democrats on the poor state of healthcare. "Look, we didn't want to repeal it, but we had to. Blame the Democrats for passing it in the first place! We never would have had to repeal it if they didn't pass it, so this is ultimately their fault!" As fucked up as that sounds, some 30% of the country will guzzle that kool-aid like it's cocaine.

[Gestopft]

I think it’s the opposite. ACA is as close to universal coverage we can get, with a Democrat majority. I don’t think democrats have enough votes to pass universal coverage, even if they take the presidency and the senate. Trying to pass any universal coverage, that doesn’t include insurance companies, cannot pass without lobbying reform. Trying to do more than ACA, before removing insurance companies lobbying, is ‘putting the cart before the horse’...

Edit: Unfortunately...

I agree in general that single-payer would be nearly impossible to do without campaign finance reform, but in this circumstance, what would the Dems’ alternative be if Obamacare was no longer an option? Having healthcare protections ripped away would cause a massive backlash in the populace against the GOP and in favor of those that want to enshrine healthcare as a right. If moderate Dems could no longer fall back on “fix the ACA,” what would their policy be to repair the damage done by a full repeal?

[Eveningforest]

What an absolute mess this would be, not just for current ACA holders, but for everyone. Privately insured people could also see many changes to their preventative coverage, waiting periods, maternity care, pre-existing conditions...etc etc. Changes for the worse of course.

Also, the health care industry has many workers who don't have employer sponsored coverage - physicians, nurses, physical/occupational therapists working per-diem, contract, home health, travel jobs. We pay for our own insurance. You take ACA away, you will deplete a field which already suffers enormous shortages. Nobody's a winner in this.

[Elegiac]

What an absolute mess this would be, not just for current ACA holders, but for everyone. Privately insured people could also see many changes to their preventative coverage, waiting periods, maternity care, pre-existing conditions...etc etc. Changes for the worse of course.

Also, the health care industry has many workers who don't have employee sponsored coverage - physicians, nurses, physical/occupational therapists working per-diem, contract, home health, travel jobs. We pay for our own insurance. You take ACA away, you will deplete a field which already suffers enormous shortages. Nobody's a winner in this.

Sad as it may be to say, the US might need to shit itself to clear the pipes, so to speak.

The fact that the ACA is so critical to the "private" healthcare industry is really telling how utterly unnecessary that additional layer of rent seeking is. And if gradual reform is just going to be resisted, then too big to fail needs to become too big to exist.

[Mormolyce]

Notice how we never get the Trumpist types in these threads that are about actual policies. They like their shitty culture war topics where they can vent their feelings and project all their negative emotions onto others to make themselves feel better about themselves, but actual government policy doesn't interest them at all.

Almost like this is all about their feelings or something.

[SirBeef]

Of course when this blows up in the GOP's face, they'll attempt to play damage control by blaming the Democrats on the poor state of healthcare. "Look, we didn't want to repeal it, but we had to. Blame the Democrats for passing it in the first place! We never would have had to repeal it if they didn't pass it, so this is ultimately their fault!" As fucked up as that sounds, some 30% of the country will guzzle that kool-aid like it's cocaine.

We can go down the line of GOP legislation in the House and Senate after the ACA was passed that made it worse and appear not to work. But then that would bring in facts to the discussion and out fellow conservatives here hate facts because they don't fit their agendas.

- - - Updated - - -

Sad as it may be to say, the US might need to shit itself to clear the pipes, so to speak.

The fact that the ACA is so critical to the "private" healthcare industry is really telling how utterly unnecessary that additional layer of rent seeking is. And if gradual reform is just going to be resisted, then too big to fail needs to become too big to exist.

Tired of all the gradual shit that doesn't do anything and is easily reversed. We didn't create NASA gradually and in small increments, We also over-funded the shit out of it. Yeah it was for an arms race with Russia, but the benefits society got out of doing it in one big swoop is incalculable. Health care needs to be the came way. Complete universal or single payer. Private insurance cane still be around if people want additional coverage or elective coverage. But what of the Health insurance workers. Well, the government will need an influx of workers to implement the system, so many can transition into government jobs if they wish. If not, then sorry.

[Independent voter]

I don't think the republicans could even overturn the "mandatory fee for not having insurance". And that's when they controlled the house and the senate.

[Draco-Onis]

I don't think the republicans could even overturn the "mandatory fee for not having insurance". And that's when they controlled the house and the senate.

You didn't read what was posted? they already have.

[Eveningforest]

Sad as it may be to say, the US might need to shit itself to clear the pipes, so to speak.

The fact that the ACA is so critical to the "private" healthcare industry is really telling how utterly unnecessary that additional layer of rent seeking is. And if gradual reform is just going to be resisted, then too big to fail needs to become too big to exist.

I don't disagree with you in theory, the ideal thing to do might be to scrap the ACA completely and extend Medicare to all age brackets. Losing ACA and having nothing to replace it with is the scary part. We're talking 20mil people completely fucked over for who knows for long long.

What the GOP is trying to do may cost them the next election. I love that part, that's great. Losing medical insurance with no actual plan to remedy that isn't a very fun thought atm, however.

[Felya]

I don't think the republicans could even overturn the "mandatory fee for not having insurance". And that's when they controlled the house and the senate.

Trump touts repeal of key part in ‘disastrous Obamacare’ — the individual mandate
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/30/trum...l-mandate.html

You really need to change your news sources.

[zenkai]

Two things.

1) The fuck-ups actually remove this, they give an even bigger push for Medicare For All from the populace. Currently, the ACA gives the spineless Democrats something to hide behind to avoid actually listening to their voters. They blow up that cover, they might actually have to actually push for Medicare for all since they said that they couldn't do the ACA. And....

2) When a rule change makes something illegal or unconstitutional, it isn't the entire thing that is unconstitutional, it is the rule change that is. So if these judges have an ounces of professionalism or patriotism in them, they will rule accordingly. For them to actually try and strike the ACA as illegal under that flawed logic, they have proven themselves mentally unwilling or incapable of performing their jobs as they just sold out their professionalism and their respect for this nation and the low for their own ideology and party. A change that could quickly come up to bite them thanks to #1.

QFT, I agree In 2008 they should have pushed for medicare for all instead of ACA

[Powerogue]

I assume this is still with no replacement plan for the ACA whatsoever?

We can go down the line of GOP legislation in the House and Senate after the ACA was passed that made it worse and appear not to work. But then that would bring in facts to the discussion and out fellow conservatives here hate facts because they don't fit their agendas.

I'd be curious of that list, since I still have family convinced none of it ever happened and the ACA was just bad from the get-go with no GOP sabotaging involved.

[Adam Jensen]

There are some Republican strategists who are rightly pointing out that the GOP got clobbered on healthcare in the mid-terms so trying to do over the whole thing (Wonder why Trump isn't blocking this since I thought he was of the opinion that you don't get do overs) heading into another election is suicide.

Couldn't express it better myself, was more or less the first thing I thought when I read the headline.

"Worked out so well for them in the past, why not try again?"