When they made Awakened did they consider the tanks at all?

[epigramx]

Prideful is 1000 times easier for a tank because for Awakened the tank player has to know almost perfectly an almost-perfect combination of portal usage in order to have some chance of success. I went to a Junkyard instance after I knew very well the <10 keys and it was an absolute mess because not only it has 4 portals: they even put 2 of them at the corners of it so it completely changes what you already knew and it’s perfectly telling that even if you go to Youtube to copy others you only get a couple of videos that express their confusion and convoluted system so it’s like an affix that requires the tank/party leader to study for at least half an hour before even trying it to have a chance at having a good route and even then if you get in the instance you have little way of knowing if it will work because the exact agro radiuses of the trash and their exact positioning isn’t even clear from management addons for the purpose.

[Nnyco]

Not knowing the route with prideful will bite you equally in the ass. When you get an add during a big pull or after a boss maybe in tyranical rather than before for the buff.

Learning routes in S4 without awakened and then complaining about having to learn routes with it is kinda your own fault.

[enigma77]

Playing the tank means knowing what to pull, yes. So you can rest assured they did consider tanks.

[Tech614]

Prideful is 1000 times easier for a tank because for Awakened the tank player has to know almost perfectly an almost-perfect combination of portal usage in order to have some chance of success. I went to a Junkyard instance after I knew very well the <10 keys and it was an absolute mess because not only it has 4 portals: they even put 2 of them at the corners of it so it completely changes what you already knew and it’s perfectly telling that even if you go to Youtube to copy others you only get a couple of videos that express their confusion and convoluted system so it’s like an affix that requires the tank/party leader to study for at least half an hour before even trying it to have a chance at having a good route and even then if you get in the instance you have little way of knowing if it will work because the exact agro radiuses of the trash and their exact positioning isn’t even clear from management addons for the purpose.

Sounds like your junkyard route was bad to begin with since all the awakened portals are where you should go for bot buffs anyways. They put the awakened portals where they did for a specific reason, they weren't just randomly placed.

Also it doesn't require much research at all. M+ dungeon tools and map out a route in 5 mins or less.

[CheckThyself]

have to agree with tech614, from your post it sounds like your issue is how -you- deal/dealt with it.....and not the design of awakened at all.

[Jibbler]

I'm not sure if he still does them but dratnos(?) on raider.io posts weekly routes for 10+ keys
you can just import the route into MDT and learn where to go and what packs to pull. Its a very good way of learning dungeons till you know all the pulls

[LordVargK]

You are the problem in this specific situation.

But in general the role of the tank has become increasingly complex since the start of m+. Tanks (in random groups) have to
- know a route based on current affixes, meaning they are the only ones in a group that have to "work" before even beginning a dungeon
- know all mobs and their abilities to be able to make good pulls
- know their groupmates and their abilities to be able to make good pulls
- interrupt the most, since their interrupt has the lowest CD. They also often are the ones coordinating the interrupts
- deal damage
- play mechanics
- survive

Some of those points are common to all roles, but of all roles tanks have to do the most work. That's why I found it really nice of Blizzard to give them the best corruption as a reward.

[Flurryfang]

Will say, that while Awakened have been the most interesting season affix, it did really give a problem to tank players, who normally don't push past 10+ in the start of the season.

Because coming into m+ as a tank, halfway through the 8.3, was a nightmare. People already knew the routes pretty much, but you had to execute them for them. There was little room for error or trying different stuff, cause the "meta" had already been set and you as a tank were the one who was responsible for it.

I don't mind Blizzard putting more responsibility onto players when it comes to planning and making routes, but i would say, that Awakened maybe changed it a bit too much. Maybe just have the pillars be connected to each other instead of having every boss create a portal aswell. Sure it made for create mob-skipping, but god did it make it hard to plan routes out as a newbie.

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Prideful is 1000 times easier for a tank because for Awakened the tank player has to know almost perfectly an almost-perfect combination of portal usage in order to have some chance of success. I went to a Junkyard instance after I knew very well the <10 keys and it was an absolute mess because not only it has 4 portals: they even put 2 of them at the corners of it so it completely changes what you already knew and it’s perfectly telling that even if you go to Youtube to copy others you only get a couple of videos that express their confusion and convoluted system so it’s like an affix that requires the tank/party leader to study for at least half an hour before even trying it to have a chance at having a good route and even then if you get in the instance you have little way of knowing if it will work because the exact agro radiuses of the trash and their exact positioning isn’t even clear from management addons for the purpose.

Yes indeed OP, Awakened was a big kick in the head for tanks this patch, just as all season affixes are. Its the price, that comes with the job ><

[idnn]

oh my god. just go from portal to portal and if you dont suck you just time it

stop acting like you push for some MDI

[Bootynuzzler]

Reading the responses in this thread is a perfect example of why it takes so long to find tanks. Not only has Blizzard made it an extraordinary pain in the ass for them, on top of that they have to deal with people like you who act like - yes - act like elitists and spew toxicity instead of acknowledging the systemic issues with tanking that Blizzard has done nothing over the years to renovate, alleviate, and generally make more accessible to players. Instead of pointing fingers at the OP, how about acknowledging the point of their post which is that ultimately Blizzard is failing the playerbase as a whole by burdening tanks with a workload that no other role has to deal with and yet feels entitled to undeservedly high expectations toward a single player in their group.

It's no wonder most people don't want to do it, and that's why it takes so damn long to find one.

[Jester Joe]

I'm not sure if he still does them but dratnos(?) on raider.io posts weekly routes for 10+ keys
you can just import the route into MDT and learn where to go and what packs to pull. Its a very good way of learning dungeons till you know all the pulls

https://raider.io/news/106-the-weekl...e-and-awakened

He does still up them up, yeah.

It's right on raider.io's front page so pretty easy to find too. A great resource for when you just start to get into tanking M+ really, I used his maps a lot at the start of this season, used to only DPS before that.

Although, a heads up on Siege of Boralus, if you're Alliance his maps are for the Horde mobs.

[loras]

Prideful is 1000 times easier for a tank because for Awakened the tank player has to know almost perfectly an almost-perfect combination of portal usage in order to have some chance of success. I went to a Junkyard instance after I knew very well the <10 keys and it was an absolute mess because not only it has 4 portals: they even put 2 of them at the corners of it so it completely changes what you already knew and it’s perfectly telling that even if you go to Youtube to copy others you only get a couple of videos that express their confusion and convoluted system so it’s like an affix that requires the tank/party leader to study for at least half an hour before even trying it to have a chance at having a good route and even then if you get in the instance you have little way of knowing if it will work because the exact agro radiuses of the trash and their exact positioning isn’t even clear from management addons for the purpose.

I see your point OP, with how minmaxxy that stuff is it would grace them to just implement a tank-routing-guide in the dungeon journal or as optional UI element.
As right now there is pretty much only one way to deal with this properly and that is through addons.

Honestly they should've made things like DBM basically (optionally) baseline for a long time now, it's just such a huge difference in how easy shit becomes.

[Zantera]

I would say Awakened is the most fun seasonal affix of BFA even for tanks. It actually felt refreshing being given an option to use the portals for different ways depending on what you need. Sure, there is a meta/bis route but unless you are super serious about your keys and doing +20 and above it doesn't matter. And if you are that player then you would be the type to read up on the meta route anyways, so the affix ultimately doesn't impact you.

[erifwodahs]

Tank here.
I take awakened over Ghunies or Emissaries any day. Those were plain annoying.
Tanking is always more demanding regarding the leading of the dungeon groups so I am pretty sure they have considered tanks while making this affix.

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Reading the responses in this thread is a perfect example of why it takes so long to find tanks. Not only has Blizzard made it an extraordinary pain in the ass for them, on top of that they have to deal with people like you who act like - yes - act like elitists and spew toxicity instead of acknowledging the systemic issues with tanking that Blizzard has done nothing over the years to renovate, alleviate, and generally make more accessible to players. Instead of pointing fingers at the OP, how about acknowledging the point of their post which is that ultimately Blizzard is failing the playerbase as a whole by burdening tanks with a workload that no other role has to deal with and yet feels entitled to undeservedly high expectations toward a single player in their group.

It's no wonder most people don't want to do it, and that's why it takes so damn long to find one.

Tank here. You can't balance that unless you put it on the healer somehow. Two most important roles in m+.
You play tank you accept additional responsibilities and thats it. Tanks split responsibility 50/50 in raids too while other groups have to deal with more mechanics but their responsibility is split in 10 parts.

[Azerate]

Certain modifiers or effects in M+ will always be more disadvantageous to some roles. Should this stop them from being implemented? I'd say no. Awakened was pretty cool, and it seems it was pretty well received across the board. I also have to say that this was my personal favorite seasonal affix of BfA. Did it bring an additional thing for tanks to learn? For sure. Was it worth it? Yes.

[Aresk]

Personally, I felt awakened changed the dungeon routes too much and stopped me from tanking this M+ season, since I would've come in halfway through without having tanked and didn't trust people to be tolerant of that fact. I didn't play season 1, but I personally prefer Awakened over the season 2 affix but worse than the season 3 affix, which I felt had a lot more counterplay.

[exochaft]

Prideful is 1000 times easier for a tank because for Awakened the tank player has to know almost perfectly an almost-perfect combination of portal usage in order to have some chance of success. I went to a Junkyard instance after I knew very well the <10 keys and it was an absolute mess because not only it has 4 portals: they even put 2 of them at the corners of it so it completely changes what you already knew and it’s perfectly telling that even if you go to Youtube to copy others you only get a couple of videos that express their confusion and convoluted system so it’s like an affix that requires the tank/party leader to study for at least half an hour before even trying it to have a chance at having a good route and even then if you get in the instance you have little way of knowing if it will work because the exact agro radiuses of the trash and their exact positioning isn’t even clear from management addons for the purpose.

I think one issue Awakened has is that it messed up mob count if you're not used to it (one of the reasons I always hated Teeming and am glad is gone). However, the flexibility that Awakened gives is very good, and it gives you a tool to avoid typical problems that you can run into on sub-10 keys, such as that annoying alarm bot area in Workshop with pugs... ugh.

From your concerns, Prideful is actually going to be worse. Why? You're going to have to know exactly where/when you will spawn that Prideful add, and spawning the add in a bad spot is way more punishing than Awakened. The 'optimal' usage of the Prideful buff may also alter where you try to spawn the add, as well, since Tyrannical may have you spawning the add for a boss or Fortified may promote using it on a nasty trash pack.

Here's the thing you need going into a key as a tank: confidence and some level of preparation. I can tank keys at +20 and higher, but I tend to do my own thing when it comes to Awakened. Do I remember exactly every percent of every mob? Nope, my old brain doesn't care to anymore . I know roughly what I need, such as needing about 86% mob count before going downstairs to the 2nd to last boss in WCM. What you really need can vary on what you do, but having a rough estimation is good enough. If anyone questions what I pull, I tell them the mobs looked at me funny and offended me, so they had to die.

That being said, knowing what you roughly need to do also means actually knowing the big picture. For example, as I've seen in abundance this week on live, don't pull high/full HP elites purposefully into small mobs and bolster them to death. Knowing the big picture concerning how things work is at least 90% of what makes a key successful. With respect to Awakened, knowing that you can kill the miniboss to drop a skip portal anywhere you want and skipping an obelisk spawns one at the last is all you really need to know. Knowing the exact pixel to drop portals, where to make the minibosses teleport to you, and portal drop routes that are 'meta' aren't really necessary at all. Doesn't mean you can't look at them and glean information from them, as you can learn something everyday. Make your own meta and refine it as you see fit. Contrary to popular belief, there's more than one answer to problems, and one size doesn't not fit all.

[Bootynuzzler]

Tank here.
I take awakened over Ghunies or Emissaries any day. Those were plain annoying.
Tanking is always more demanding regarding the leading of the dungeon groups so I am pretty sure they have considered tanks while making this affix.

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Tank here. You can't balance that unless you put it on the healer somehow. Two most important roles in m+.
You play tank you accept additional responsibilities and thats it. Tanks split responsibility 50/50 in raids too while other groups have to deal with more mechanics but their responsibility is split in 10 parts.

I'm sorry, but as a healer I just don't agree. I follow the tank and dps around and simply react with what heals and CDs are necessary at the time. It's an important role, sure, but it's far too easy to compare to what tanks have to deal with. I understand accepting additional responsibilities as a tank, but I don't agree with the level it's at. One thing that has me excited about Shadowlands is its potential to bring in new players, and to have a role be so off-putting to them is discouraging. Hell, it's an intimidating role even for experienced players.

[erifwodahs]

I'm sorry, but as a healer I just don't agree. I follow the tank and dps around and simply react with what heals and CDs are necessary at the time. It's an important role, sure, but it's far too easy to compare to what tanks have to deal with. I understand accepting additional responsibilities as a tank, but I don't agree with the level it's at. One thing that has me excited about Shadowlands is its potential to bring in new players, and to have a role be so off-putting to them is discouraging. Hell, it's an intimidating role even for experienced players.

Well, I expect healer to know the pulls too as wasting support CDs for just a random damage spike is literally just that - wasting. And boss fights are massive responsibility for healer on high keys. Tanking bosses is less stressful for me. Whole stress comes out of doing big pulls and most fun.

[Bootynuzzler]

Well, I expect healer to know the pulls too as wasting support CDs for just a random damage spike is literally just that - wasting.

If you're implying that requires anything more than simply knowing the affixes and stealing a quick peek at the Adventure Guide or doing a single Mythic run of any level, I'm afraid you're mistaken.