Originally Posted by
ravenmoon
I agree, I have been a big advocate of removing cross faction barriers, for nearly 10 years.. I felt this way based on the direction wow was going.. it made no sense to have the barriers as they are. This is still my premier and most desired solution.
However: Blizzard don't want to remove this, because the faction theme, and the separation is part of the core identity of Warcraft. And so they aren't doing anything more. The funny thing is, by putting blood elves in the horde, they destroyed that distinction. Because they effectively put a core alliance race on the horde unchanged , and the race that did all the alliance things the best - which makes the alliance sort of redundant in a system where you are picking one side for what it embodies, and another side for something else.
However if you were not to make the factions based on that clear distinction, this won't be a problem at all. But blizz wants Warcraft to remain in its core original element.. so they've gridlocked themselves. Look, becoming diverse factions based on other criteria is neither better nor worse than having that original alliance/horde distinction.
It's a matter of flavour.. some games/franchises do the whole mix thing, others allow something more along the horde and alliance where each side is clearly defined.. both have their charm and appeal.
the problem is as it stands, Warcraft is in neither zone, and it must pick one. There was a charm to the original system, this is what gained Warcraft it's greatest following. however there is mass and safe appeal in the full on mix direction, it is not as compelling as the first, but it won't anger or excite as much either, it's a nice happy okay place to be.. and they have to choose.
If they are going to choose to restore the original Warcraft, faction identity and numbers are only going to be fixed by the high elves returning large on the alliance, and the alliance being the centre of human/elf/dwarf races... meanwhile on the horde, all is fine except for the blood elves and Nightborne, with these, they must stop being like high elves and kaldorei Highborne types and must assume a more unique identity like Kael'thas' blood elves did when they joined the Illidari, and like Elisande's loyalists, pragmatic, not noble good, it would also help if they had a new set of architecture, and vibe, even if their models remain.
This is the way to start sorting out the number issues, you must reinforce the identity of the factions and advertise them boldly for what they represent. It is the alliance that would need the bulk of the attention, because it is its identity that has bene muddled and obscured, I'm not saying this because I like the alliance, but this is the path to fixing the issue. people must desire the alliance again, you do this by making them look awesome.
Elves core part? make their elves badass, high elves gain a lot of traction, let them return with a bang, night elves were popular when they were an epic race, spanning the incredibly accomplished pre-sundering magical wonder and the mystique wild magic of the forest - , then add void elves and Illidari and you get a nice healthy mix.
Dwarves, dwarves are so cool in other franchise like lotR the Hobbit and Warhammer, no reason why they should be lame, they need to be seen with the same sort of iron we saw in the Hobbit movies or you see in Warhammer.
The horde don't need the same sort of focus, because it has had it for the last 14 years, but it would need to bring out some more of it's core identity, move trolls and orcs a bit more to the forefront, whiles blood elves and Nightborne stay a healthy distance while they are rebuilt.
overall if you want the original faction system and identity, you have to take these steps, to make the faction exciting and desirable - this all ties into making the franchise exciting and desirable from a narrative and cult following dynamic.
IF, if, if.. however if you just want it to be a game and no more, and one more about Esports and action with some lore flavouring.. then DITCH this horde alliance restriction nonsense, an action/sports game doesn't need the racial divide and separation to play well. If you're not interested in doing specific and dynamic lore to build this into more than just a game with flavour, then I see no point in faction restriction.
But if you want Warcraft to continue on the big stage, and revive, you need it to have something particular, unique, and it needs to be strong in that identity, there are so many things out there, if you take Warcraft big but then mellow it out into just the same mix as everyone else, it would just stay mediocre, on the world stage, it needs something strong and unique, and its original dichotomy had this better than now. Ofc you have to find a way to restore the original dichotomy, and still have blood elves around, no going back form there until wow ends, in the next game perhaps, but for this one, you have to make blood elves fit, without being so alliance through and through...
Whiles their models remain, we must restore their TBC grit and bad boy character imo, this is the way to go. It is not the only way ofc, you can develop something else entirely, whatever it is, let it have as little of the old high elf in it. Take everything high elf like away, as much as can be done, even if it means building them a new city, giving them a new zone etc. I would recommend Netherstorm, with a new design, a sort of fusion of crystals and blood gems with arcane nether vibe - aesthetic maybe a cross between draenei and void elf, but in blood elf skins, completely new architecture and an attitude and character that is definitely not high elven or draenei - Don't know what they were smoking, but Kael'thas in TFT when he joined Illidan was perfect.. an anti-hero race. Like the Illidari. Nightborne far better fit the ridiculously arrogant and stuffy Zin'Azshari palace Highborne model we saw the Elisande loyalists, not the original kaldorei noble we see the likes of the original Highborne like Farondis or people like Lord Ravencrest and Malfurion/Tyrande are like. That pre-sundering kaldorei civilization is all alliance geared, the nobility of the non-palace night elves Highborne and other castes alike are too benevolent and gracious with concepts that are very much alliance based.
Then they must ask the question, should the horde have any of that character? Yes, it should but in a way that fits it. You see if the blood elves have that, it smacks of the alliance, it screams high elf and human or night elf. Those are core alliance races, therefore blood elves must have something different, a viciousness, ambition, a hard resilience attitude but one based o npower and very unlike the high elf... however the Tauren, being all benevolent and moralistic works quite well, because they don't have complex civilizations and magic and other alliance things.. besides the point is not to make a good and bad faction.. so you need noble souls on the horde, but it has to be different in it's own way, with as much as possible unique.
If most blood levs are ambitious, power hungry and ruthless, you have to show this, but be sure to have a handful a bit different, who value some of the old ways, but never let them steal the limelight. For moral limelight, let it come from the Tauren and the Vulpera - different enough from the alliance in more than just aesthetics for it to feel different, yet still have a common bond.
If the blood elves look very alliance model wise, they have to have a character that's very horde wise, and an develop architectural aesthetic that is closer to the dreadful or domineering imposing character of the horde. Think the Empire from star wars.. so if they get a new Silvermoon, add sharp needle like pincers, make it domineering instead of graceful, powerful and majestic instead of glorious and inspiring.
Also bear in mind, that if you are going down the faction distinction route, then you shouldn't be writing lots of roles for blood elves, because at the heart, the leves are an alliance based race, so while he horde has them, the horde's focus should not be them. When the horde sees them they can see something that looks very good, and cool, but in a way that fits the horde, and it shouldn't remind them of the alliance, or feel like the home those who like alliance type things should be.
Whiles the alliance generally can seem a bit more flimsy but quaintly more beautiful, their as an attraction about grit, raw power, going for domineering instead of majestic, imposing instead of glorious. The blood elves should have a part, Nightborne too, but it shouldn't be a major one, because they are elves taken from the alliance side, the horde majors should be it's core races, and while you do get the blood elves involved and they have their story, it's minor because that's not really what the horde is.. they should not be promoting elves hard on the horde, it's counter identity - even with changes. You still have to give them changes to fit better, but they can never be the fore front, they were always a borrowed race, elf focus should be alliance mainly, just like furry and troll focus should be horde mainly.
1. Keep the blood elves and Nightborne rare on the horde
2. Keep them looking good, but also add some cool features in that direction the alliance shouldn't have and vice versa.
3. Give them new architecture and culture that looks amazing, but is different from high and night elf stuff they've been in.
Build the allliance up based on what it is centred on - humans, elves and dwarves. Then make the horde great for Orcs, Trolls, Tauren etc, even though it has blood elves and nightborne. They should be finding ways to make the orcs and trolls more diverse, rather than keep poaching alliance races - IF AND ONLY IF they want to restore the original faction state.
My recommendation is things like a half orc sub-race, see Garona's model in the movies? now imagine cool looking half orc models, with better proportions, taller but bulky muscled men, human faces, but orc tusks (smaller), still green, but a human nose, and human hairs/beards.... this is in addition to the normal orc, make them look gorgeous and handsome, in a rugged muscle type, this would be hugely popular
New orc cities, can look great and still be orcish, I can't see why something like the Iron horde's iron horde architecture in WoD can't be expanded, in someways it looks better than Stormwind, what about Highmaul type buildings? that looked really cool when I saw it.
Expand forsaken cities, i would love something like Minas Morgul from LotR for the forsaken, dreadful, dark but impressive with a dark beauty, it's not savage, but it's corrupted and has a coolness to it - let the forsaken have their moral and existential battles. Their circumstance creates a unique set of problems for that.
if shouldn't be so hard to write good and interesting stories for humans either, it was easy in WC2 and 3, so I don't see why it's all of a sudden so hard, except there is no desire in the writing team. Night elves are the easiest to write, they have so much back lore, and for the first time they've totally solved the magical addiction and legion threat - a powerful time of coming together, with challenges, and it's easy to see humans finding them too overbearing and meddling (Highborne) or just xenophobic (priestess types), they have their flavour and character that is its own world, easy to write stories especially with pre-sundering magic types like Moonguard/Highborne/Nightborne, druid types and priest types including Moon priests, star priests, then sentinels , hunters and Illidari types -- there is so much there.
Please, when they come out with lame stuff, and seem to be out of ideas, it smacks of lacking motivation and not being interested. There is enough material to write a lot of good stuff, without rubbish forced conflicts. And the solution is they need 1 person to control the narrative, and set the direction and plot, but a person that is really passionate about Warcraft, like its his baby, one who won't be taking sides with one character or one race, but sets the tone, because he is writing a story.. now that person should be respected by the other senior teams, creatives need to be taken seriously, you can't give them the role then bully them and chop and change their concepts,. Work with them.
This person needs a team, the team is to support the writing and flesh it out, flesh it out through quests, in game stories, back stories, the lore build up, that produces the details.. it needs to be properly done and in the details told in an interesting way, which also requires talent and passion too, this sort of thing doesn't work for a person whom this is just a job.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Classic Patch 4.4.0 Notes
Realm Restarts Scheduled — Wednesday May 1
WoW as Free to Play in the model of Hearthstone
You are not in a Raid group / You are not in a party
MMO-Champion
Recent Blue Posts
Recent Forum Posts
Reply With Quote
