Do most Alliance and Horde players like Saurfang?

[OwenBurton]

Varok Saurfang was one of the most popular characters of the Horde for years, and was widely regarded and respected as a war hero, especially after Wrath of the Lich King.

However, I've noticed that Saurfang seemed to have had a very mixed reaction during the last expansion, the Fourth War, because of his controversial choices; Alliance players thought he was just an enabler and an accessory to Teldrassil and possibly found him not as easy to relate to, while Horde players seem to view him as as traitor after abandoning them at Lordaeron (some players actually wanted to kill Saurfang during the scenario), and because Sylvanas seemed more popular than he was. I understand most Alliance and Horde NPCs seem to revere him now, because he apparently died a noble and honorable death.

What do most players nowadays regard Saurfang, as a hero or a traitor? Do they generally view him positively or negatively? Do you think he was an interesting and compelling character?

[kranur]

He was cool, had very little development over the years and was caught in the shitstorm lore of bfa.

[Soon-TM]

Afrasiabi's Story Focus™ smashed his character into tiny little pieces. The super, badass warrior, the action guy found himself suddenly sobbing in a lost beach in the Swamp of Sorrows, not daring raise a finger against that meanie Sylv until getting the God King's blessing. Screw him and the rest of the sadorcs.

[Varodoc]

Too much time was wasted on this senile fossil. We had, what, 5 CGI cinematics in BfA? All were wasted on Saurfang... we could have had one centred around Azshara or N'Zoth instead. You know, the villains people actually care about and who were tragically underused in BfA.

[sighy]

Traitor several times over. And his "sacrifice" only really worked, because Sylvanas suddenly started acting out of character and making stupid decisions, because plot said so. And i don't care how powerful you think you are having the biggest army in the world completely loyal to you could be useful, at a few points in time, for example when you are attacking Icecrown or kidnapping faction leaders... Hell Nathanos might still be alive, if he had a few thousand soldiers with him lol

Besides she won the Mak'gora, because magic never was established to be against the rules.(not like she really needed it anyway lol) You even have stuff like WotLK pre-xpac event, where Thrall was tossing boulders and lightning and nobody nobody cared.

[Gurahk]

Yes, however I didn't like how he acted at times in BfA, but man do I prefer him over Sylvanas.

[Alanar]

REALY almost 50/50 on the horde??

Realy horde??

The ones who like him should realy get a grip my god what pethatic outcome. So appearntly almost 50% liked hes boring/whiny/ honor bullshit. I mean hes story was 100% boring in so many ways.

Interesting characters in bfa were wasted such as Azshara or Rastakahn, but sadfang got like 3/4? Cinematics.

Idk its even a weird outcome tbh... idk even if you tell me your oldschool then I would still find that weird.

[jpch]

This is the guy that organized the War Of Thorns, helped kill thousands of humans during the second war, thousands of Night Elves...There's nothing to like.

[Toybox]

I enjoyed him when he was the meme-y overpowered NPC in the middle of Org that'd cut up any Alliance raid that dared tried, and I also liked his story during Wrath (especially ICC).

More recently? Ehh, just another shit character in a sea of shit characters.

[Super Dickmann]

To get the good out of the way, I liked the bit where he tells Anduin that he never had honor and has no idea what he's actually doing, his admission that he represents basically no one and that he ultimately went out on a suicide run. It's pretty grim, but was decently well handled. His appearances prior to BFA were also basically harmless and entertaining enough for what he was. I also liked him in A Good War and his cinematics are all very well done on a technical level.

Sadly, that's massively eclipsed by being the centerpiece of one of the most overwrought brain damage-inducing storylines with the worst consequences the game has ever produced. He was the Horde side of the blunt instrument that turned the factions into carbon copies of each other. He had to learn about his own people's culture from a human teenager, was fine with letting thousands die on the off chance it killed off his opponent. His ultimate conclusion was doing something that, were he not built up solely to sell the Unification of factions and have Afrasiabi put out cinematic after insipid cinematic, he would've done at the very start. He was cast repeatedly as a heroic, honorable foil despite being a hypocrite who had no issue either letting his own side die or killing them off to implement a social order that was not only already fucked, that being Thrall's Horde, but that he himself in his last moments admitted he knew nothing about anyway, all on behalf of the Alliance king because god forbid he act with any agency of his own.

Not to undersell his damage to the other side of the aisle of course, he may have been a pestilence on the Horde storyline, but there's a case to be made that he was barely better Alliance side. Saurfang's culpability in the War of Thorns not being addressed, no one having any issue with Anduin freeing the second most important figure in the war plan there except for Sylvanas and his excessive amount of focus and lionization, down to Anduin praising at his funeral does more damage to the night elves than any number of scenes of Tyrande jobbing. Through his storyline the narrative explicitly made the deaths of the majority of the night elf population nothing more than a tool to make Saurfang sad, relevant only in so far as it served his journey to mope at a different person every other patch and then do something he could've done Day 1. All the while the victims of which were an afterthought and were cast as irrational and dangerous for holding an issue and everyone we're meant to find heroic finds him just fine.

He should've stayed a meme.

[Rendark]

He was good but like most things BfA fucked it up.

[Daronokk]

To get the good out of the way, I liked the bit where he tells Anduin that he never had honor and has no idea what he's actually doing, his admission that he represents basically no one and that he ultimately went out on a suicide run. It's pretty grim, but was decently well handled. His appearances prior to BFA were also basically harmless and entertaining enough for what he was. I also liked him in A Good War and his cinematics are all very well done on a technical level.

Sadly, that's massively eclipsed by being the centerpiece of one of the most overwrought brain damage-inducing storylines with the worst consequences the game has ever produced. He was the Horde side of the blunt instrument that turned the factions into mirror images of each other. He had to learn about his own people's culture from a human teenager, was fine with letting thousands die on the off chance it killed off his opponent. His ultimate conclusion was doing something that, were he not built up solely to sell the Unification of factions and have Afrasiabi put out cinematic after insipid cinematic, he would've done on the first place. He was cast repeatedly as a heroic, honorable foil despite being a hypocrite who had no issue either letting his own side die or killing them off to implement a social order that was not only already fucked, that being Thrall's Horde, but that he himself in his last moments admitted he knew nothing about anyway, all on behalf of the Alliance king because god forbid he act with any agency of his own.

Not to undersell his damage to the other side of the aisle of course, he may have been a pestilence on the Horde storyline, but there's a case to be made that he was barely better Alliance side. Saurfang's culpability in the War of Thorns not being addressed, no one having any issue with Anduin freeing the second most important figure in the war plan there except for Sylvanas and his excessive amount of focus and lionization, down to Anduin praising at his funeral does more damage to the night elves than any number of scenes of Tyrande jobbing. Through his storyline the narrative explicitly made the deaths of the majority of the night elf population nothing more than a tool to make Saurfang sad, relevant only in so far as it served his journey to mope at a different person every other patch and then do something he could've done Day 1. All the while the victims of which were an afterthought and were cast as irrational and dangerous for holding an issue and everyone we're meant to find heroic finds him just fine.

He should've stayed a meme.

That's a lot of words for a statement so hollow. Your Alliance bias is showing.

Letting his own die? For Orcs dying on the battlefield is an honor. Victory or death and all that. And a flawed structure? You're talking about the Warchief position? It isn't flawed, the council shit that is rammed down our throat is flawed and a poor copy of the Alliance structure, which makes the faction the red Alliance basically. If you love Alliance continue playing that, don't try to analyse a faction that doesn't suit you.

[Super Dickmann]

That's a lot of words for a statement so hollow. Your Alliance bias is showing.

Letting his own die? For Orcs dying on the battlefield is an honor. Victory or death and all that. And a flawed structure? You're talking about the Warchief position? It isn't flawed, the council shit that is rammed down our throat is flawed and a poor copy of the Alliance structure, which makes the faction the red Alliance basically. If you love Alliance continue playing that, don't try to analyse a faction that doesn't suit you.

What're you even on about, that's exactly my point. He was the tool used to remove the Warchief position in the first place, gutting the Horde of its foundation and turning into a literal Red Alliance. Thrall's Horde isn't flawed because it had the Warchief spot it was flawed because it was a failure based around Thrall's racial guilt which stranded the orcs living in a desert and reliant on handouts from the Alliance to function and nearing starvation the second they faced a major crisis in the Cataclysm. A character who's lionized for trying to bring it back is thus also wrong. By being okay with letting his own die by the thousands I don't mean just that though, but the part where he tells Anduin in the Stockade cinematic that he spared his life during the opening cinematic because he, the orcish warrior, hoped that Anduin would go stop Sylvanas for him. Something that by default would require the Horde army, including his surrogate son character Memeboi to be killed off so Anduin would get to her.

[mickybrighteyes]

Varok Saurfang was one of the most popular characters of the Horde for years, and was widely regarded and respected as a war hero, especially after Wrath of the Lich King.

However, I've noticed that Saurfang seemed to have had a very mixed reaction during the last expansion, the Fourth War, because of his controversial choices; Alliance players thought he was just an enabler and an accessory to Teldrassil and possibly found him not as easy to relate to, while Horde players seem to view him as as traitor after abandoning them at Lordaeron (some players actually wanted to kill Saurfang during the scenario), and because Sylvanas seemed more popular than he was. I understand most Alliance and Horde NPCs seem to revere him now, because he apparently died a noble and honorable death.

What do most players nowadays regard Saurfang, as a hero or a traitor? Do they generally view him positively or negatively? Do you think he was an interesting and compelling character?

for me my interest in Saurfang tanked in Legion when he was written as more and more reckless in seeking his demise. BFA killed what was left of my liking for him...

he planned the war of thorns and when he didn't like his success he undermined it and in effect forced events to escalate and THEN tried backing down to abandon his post. Allowed himself to be captured and LET the king of Stormwind set him free. Now if the story handled this from any other perspective than Sylvanas is the real root of all evil here and looked at Saurfang's part beyond sadfang tired of killing (that he planned and executed... ugh could have been interesting. As it is? just sad

[Sunderella]

I liked him a lot in the old days when he was this veteran warrior respect and feared by Horde and Alliance alike. Hand of the Warchief, Supreme Commander of The Might of Kalimdor, he even came to the rescue of the player in Warsong Hold in Wrath etc. all that stuff that gave him some development and let you saw him doing some stuff. But then BfA happened and he was completely butchered IMO.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I had no particular feelings towards him, which is a very good outlook since I am Alliance.
That is, until the sketch during the burning of Darnassus, where he backstabbed Malfurion and then cried "oh nooo I did a bad". That is were I started to dislike him.

[McNeil]

I started to like Saurfang a lot in WotLK, lecturing Garrosh, helping out the player on a hard boss mob, grieving over his son and then leading the Horde assault on ICC himself. Back when you didn't need a dozen of CG cinematics to make you feel for a character. Saurfang in BFA was just a tired old fool at that point. I wanted Saurfangs death to be a lot more epic and tragic, yet I felt nothing the first time I watched. I prefer to remember him as the big guy standing in Org which the Alliance feared at some point (unless he got MCed) and that he became a badass in Northrend. Maybe he should have been warchief after Garrosh, anything would be better than the direction they took with him in BFA.

[Razion]

His entire thing was being loyal to the Warchief. Then he wasn't. I felt more for Nazgrim because serving the Horde War machine relentlessly is the Orc way - he was a product of culture, a reflection of the problem. It's regrettable because Saurfang comes in representing the hope and solution, and dies for it. He shows that it isn't easy, that even the mightiest of warriors can't stand in the face of these kinds of issues. War is greater than one rebellion, this is the lesson that is taught for better or worse.

[Aleksej89]

Saurfang was cool in vanilla and i loved him in wotlk (still remember his lines when he talked to garrosh about why he does not eat pigs).
The modern saurfang was the last remnant of the "thrall brotherhood horde", the part that gave up on bloodlust and senseless violence.

Horde playerbase is very polarized when it comes to that, some want to play as the brotherhood tribes and others want to play as genocidal nazi cartoon villains.
Honestly the horde should be split into two mutually hostile factions - this would make storytelling better and the PVP issues could be solved since current Horde pvp population is at least double compared to alliance.

PVP and storytelling would become a lot more interesting if it was a split between 3 factions instead of current setup of just two factions but one has a severe bipolar disorder.

[geco]

REALY almost 50/50 on the horde??

Realy horde??

The ones who like him should realy get a grip my god what pethatic outcome. So appearntly almost 50% liked hes boring/whiny/ honor bullshit. I mean hes story was 100% boring in so many ways.

Interesting characters in bfa were wasted such as Azshara or Rastakahn, but sadfang got like 3/4? Cinematics.

Idk its even a weird outcome tbh... idk even if you tell me your oldschool then I would still find that weird.

Honor is what makes me dislike him.
He does not declare a Makgnora to Sylvanas after Teldrazzil. He hides. He only moves his ass when Anduin tells him to. It is only a means for the Horde not to pay its debt of honor.

Like Horde. If I could choose between Honor and anything I would choose Honor. But varock is not Honor. Varock is being an Anduin bitch and being a coward.

PVP and storytelling would become a lot more interesting if it was a split between 3 factions instead of current setup of just two factions but one has a severe bipolar disorder.

Why3? Four.
Tyrande is not on the side of Forgive those who kill us either.

WoW could really bet and give us the 4 factions that it had to have from the beginning and incidentally the possibility of playing between factions through Long quests.