Dismantle Vs Hunters

[zaf]

I am a rogue. So during a lot of bgs and arenas, I notice that when I use Dismantle; the hunter I effect is practically useless. As you all obviously know, to regain focus a hunter needs to fire off either Steady/Cobra shot. Since I remove their weapon they have no way what so ever to regain their resource(except for the very slow regen). During this time I easily beat down on them, without the use of cds even. I am more or less saying this because I find it un fair? I know right...... But to me it just doesn't make much sense. Say for instance as well, I dismantle the hunter when he is at his lowest amount of focus (let's say less then 10) he is even more worse off then if i do it at 100, which imo is still a crap situation. Thoughts?

[Bootycus]

Well if a rogue or warrior disarms us, we can always lay a frost trap down and kite you for the 5 seconds. However, when a Shadow priest disarms a hunter, we have to just sit there and take it.

[zaf]

I can see traps. I am a rogue. I can honestly say i have never been in a trap. Also since i am hitting you, you have crippling poisons.
Aspect of the fox seems to be some sort of relieve. Giving back 2 focus per hit, but it doesnt seem enough imo. and i dont even play a hunter haha.

[cybermind]

It's no real difference from disarming any melee class, excepting probably DKs. None of the traps, disengage, nor deterrence cost any focus (trap launcher does, but not the traps themselves). We lose any ability to attack (same as melee, except for punching, I guess), but we can still use defensive abilities (same as melee).

Edit: although the pet is still there unless you've killed it already :-/

[Abolishment]

Yeah, it's pretty brutal, especially when the Hunter doesn't use a weapon chain.

[zaf]

Ill open on the hunter with a cheap shot, and dismantle them and just wait for the disengage to sprint to them and then kidney after the dismantle is up. So they cant really do much against me. Deterrence is really only so good. I just find the resource management of hunters to be really really bad.

[Shoelace]

I just find the resource management of hunters to be really really bad.

Strictly from a PvP perspective, yes. It's completely fine in PvE. This is also because it gimps Hunter burst but has no effect on their sustained DPS.

[Bootycus]

Regening focus as a hunter in pvp really just sucks. They gave hunters no additional ways to kite melee but they gave melee additional ways to stay on our nuts. Pretty much any CD we have to put distance between a melee and the hunter, each melee class has a counter to it.

Warrior - 2 charges and a 2 min heroic leap
Rogue - sprint, cloak, vanish, shadowstep (sub spec), blah blah blah list goes on
Enhance shaman - 6 second CD frost shock root, frost brand weapon, frost shock
DK - Too many
Ret or prot pally - HoJ, seal of justice (slow that cant be dispelled with masters call), Glyphed avenger shield (currently bugged with masters call yay!), repentence

Funny thing is, I only mentioned melee. Casters have just as many ways to close the gap between one another and just sit on us and free cast. Pretty sure I am going BM once they buff Kill command just so I can do *some* damage while everyone is tightly gripped around my nuts.

[Dhryke]

We have plenty of ways to kite:

-When specced into entrapment
Ice Trap - 4 sec snare and slow after
Snake Trap - 4 sec snare
- Scatter Shot - 4 sec disorient
- Concussive Shot - 4 sec slow
- Spider for example, Web - 5 sec snare
-Wyvern Sting - Will buy you some time
- Disengage

None of these abilities cost focus to use, you should be able to get off some cobra shots in there to regen focus. By that time your traps will be coming off cooldown. Using all the tools available will show better results.

[atselmya]

I am a rogue. So during a lot of bgs and arenas, I notice that when I use Dismantle; the hunter I effect is practically useless. As you all obviously know, to regain focus a hunter needs to fire off either Steady/Cobra shot. Since I remove their weapon they have no way what so ever to regain their resource(except for the very slow regen). During this time I easily beat down on them, without the use of cds even. I am more or less saying this because I find it un fair? I know right...... But to me it just doesn't make much sense. Say for instance as well, I dismantle the hunter when he is at his lowest amount of focus (let's say less then 10) he is even more worse off then if i do it at 100, which imo is still a crap situation. Thoughts?

Am I the only one who notices that this is a hunter posing as a rogue?

[cybermind]

We have plenty of ways to kite:

-When specced into entrapment
Ice Trap - 4 sec snare and slow after
Snake Trap - 4 sec snare
- Scatter Shot - 4 sec disorient
- Concussive Shot - 4 sec slow
- Spider for example, Web - 5 sec snare
-Wyvern Sting - Will buy you some time
- Disengage

None of these abilities cost focus to use, you should be able to get off some cobra shots in there to regen focus. By that time your traps will be coming off cooldown. Using all the tools available will show better results.

While you are correct regarding kiting abilities, but when you're disarmed (as is the OPs main argument), you can't use Wyvern Sting and Scatter Shot, which are 2 pretty powerful abilities in your list.

[Dhryke]

While you are correct regarding kiting abilities, but when you're disarmed (as is the OPs main argument), you can't use Wyvern Sting and Scatter Shot, which are 2 pretty powerful abilities in your list.

You are correct as well. Everything has a counter. Seems fine to me.

[cybermind]

You are correct as well. Everything has a counter. Seems fine to me.

Yup, seems fine to me too. I was just pointing out a tiny flaw. As I said, Hunter's are just as vulnerable when disarmed as any melee class (although DKs do get stuff like Death Coil to use a time or two that others don't).

[Deleted]

How is this any different to a caster being silenced or a melee being rooted. Both are useless if this happens

[Ijanaak]

I find dismantle to be devastating when used at the right time, but as the first replyer mentioned... against a shadow priest it causes and unbelievable disadvantage for us since we can't deterrence the dots without a main hand.

[Deleted]

It's no real difference from disarming any melee class, excepting probably DKs. None of the traps, disengage, nor deterrence cost any focus (trap launcher does, but not the traps themselves). We lose any ability to attack (same as melee, except for punching, I guess), but we can still use defensive abilities (same as melee).

Edit: although the pet is still there unless you've killed it already :-/

Deterrence requires you to have a melee weapon equipped, which you... doesn't have when you're dismantled/disarmed... So yeah, no Deterrence.

[Aljaser]

DK - Too many

I don't PVP, but aside from COI and death grip, what else do they have? There's that frost trap ability in unholy if that's still there, but that's still no more than other classes you mentioned.

[Ghostlike]

I don't even understand why Dismantle exists really. I don't understand a lot of decisions Blizzard has made over the past few years.

Paladin's can still bubble and beat your face in while having full immunity, but The Beast Within was apparently too good.

This game is full of an endless amount of double-standard design flaws.

[Gotjuice]

Yeah good players can make hunters look useless and by good I mean non-retarded players...

[xavierjn]

It's been discussed many times concerning our PvP viability. We are rather gimped right now if you consider our opponent to be of equal skill level. We are gimped against opponents of lesser skill level who are of certain classes. We are under-represented in Arenas, and very poor partners *on average* in 2's.

I'm not saying this is 100% true, as I know some of you are doing amazing in PvP as Hunters right now, and you give me hope for the future. I'm just telling the average.