MOP Walocks "pet less"

[Hellfury]

You guys excited to go "pet less"? Or rather frown on the idea. I see this term alot now on various warlock discussions regarding MOP and Iam kinda concerned, for now Iam gona talk destro and aff since iam sure demo petless wont be anyway viable.

Iam going out and say I hate the idea of being pet-less, Its ok they give us that option for certain fights, for example that option would be awsome at Alyzrazor flying, or Alakir p3

Iam afraid petless for aff/destro becomes the norm like it was at the end of TBC where you had no choise, even as destro less pet centric specs I like my pet in a RP way and the mechanics of it. I hope this gets decently balanced, but wow history says they cant, one always will be better look at Fury warrs 2h vs 1h DW they were never balanced. My option is that petless spec should always be inferior in DPS than a pet present one, this also opens another problem, those fights where we cant use pet and then spec the petless talent we will be subpar

It seems this petless situation, its just a carte blanche to the raid department so they can design raid content without pets in mind.

The moment I saw this talent it smelt bad for me, how they gona balance it, Iam sure most warlocks like and manage they pet well, while there are others that wouldn't mind to go petless, and then there are those players that hate warlocks mostly cause of us being a petclass(I know several ppl) and just love this talent so they can roll a petless warlock.

How is blizzard balance this? Make petless do less damge than a petable warlock, or make one of the specs rather petless, or worst make aff/destro petless via talent and Demo the only spec for petloving locks, its a tricky one for sure.

[Nelrock]

You guys excited to go "pet less"? Or rather frown on the idea. I see this term alot now on various warlock discussions regarding MOP and Iam kinda concerned, for now Iam gona talk destro and aff since iam sure demo petless wont be anyway viable.

Iam going out and say I hate the idea of being pet-less, Its ok they give us that option for certain fights, for example that option would be awsome at Alyzrazor flying, or Alakir p3

Iam afraid petless for aff/destro becomes the norm like it was at the end of TBC where you had no choise, even as destro less pet centric specs I like my pet in a RP way and the mechanics of it. I hope this gets decently balanced, but wow history says they cant, one always will be better look at Fury warrs 2h vs 1h DW they were never balanced. My option is that petless spec should always be inferior in DPS than a pet present one, this also opens another problem, those fights where we cant use pet and then spec the petless talent we will be subpar

It seems this petless situation, its just a carte blanche to the raid department so they can design raid content without pets in mind.

The moment I saw this talent it smelt bad for me, how they gona balance it, Iam sure most warlocks like and manage they pet well, while there are others that wouldn't mind to go petless, and then there are those players that hate warlocks mostly cause of us being a petclass(I know several ppl) and just love this talent so they can roll a petless warlock.

How is blizzard balance this? Make petless do less damge than a petable warlock, or make one of the specs rather petless, or worst make aff/destro petless via talent and Demo the only spec for petloving locks, its a tricky one for sure.

I haven't mained my Lock in quite some time, but I don't like the idea. To me, it defined the class. Without a pet...be more or less a mage with different spells?

[salpsan]

during bc sacrificing the pet was a very viable gameplay mechanic. it suffers in pvp of course, but keep an open mind. back then the sacrificed voidwalker gave some seriously insane hp regen. if you dont like that talent then choose another of the 3. bare in mind tho, with what is seen soo far in mop, if you sac a pet and use drain life you will do rly nice dmg and healing

[saosin]

My guess is that they dont want pet saccing warlocks too strong again so the only time we will see it will be on bosses with a gimmick which render pets useless.
At all other time pets will be stronger. Just my two cents

[tclkage]

I'm sure there will be a few boss fights where it is definitely better or worse to sacrifice your pet, but I doubt it'll be the same across the board. I suppose that means that the hard core raid folks will switch it up from one boss to the next, but you know that group of people will be doing the same thing for all of the classes. Then there will be the group of people that just play whatever the heck they think is fun, and this gives them more options. I fall more into that group, and since I like pets more, I'll just stick with that.

[lopk]

I haven't mained my Lock in quite some time, but I don't like the idea. To me, it defined the class. Without a pet...be more or less a mage with different spells?

Isn't a spriest just a mage...with different spells? A boomkin, an ele just a mage...with different spells?

I know what you're getting at, though. Pets are iconic for the warlock class, and it'll be a tad strange not seeing them. I personally don't seem to mind though, whether you've got an imp spamming fireball out or not, you're still a warlock.

[Jessicka]

Sac will be default for multidotting fights, not just gimmicks. The fact Sac offers a flat damage bonus against everything kinda renders a pet obsolete when that pet can only attack one target.

I agree, it sucks, I was glad when they removed it. People only ever asked for it back to cover for poor encounter design that failed to accomodate pet classes, not for any added gameplay benefits; since it does in fact take away things rather than offer them :s

[Obsidian9]

Sac will be default for multidotting fights, not just gimmicks. The fact Sac offers a flat damage bonus against everything kinda renders a pet obsolete when that pet can only attack one target.

I agree, it sucks, I was glad when they removed it. People only ever asked for it back to cover for poor encounter design that failed to accomodate pet classes, not for any added gameplay benefits; since it does in fact take away things rather than offer them :s

Not entirely a sure thing at this time considering Destruction would not have use of destructive influence (might not even have the mana to multidot). Demonology mastery in the calculator at least increases the damage of demons. Granted Affliction is often viewed as the primary multidot spec.

With affliction it appears to be likely. However without any reasonable numbers it is not entirely clear if it will be required or not.

[ComputerNerd]

I would hope that pets can be close enough in DPS for the most part so that you can change to another pet to suit the fight without too much of a hit to your damage.
Hoping we could change to the pet that suits the fight, either for an ability, a buff or simply because it is ranged or melee.

That would do a lot towards fixing that problem, without needing the sacrifice mechanic which I doubt would ever be balanced.

[Deleted]

Demonology: Demonic Fury
Many spells and demon attacks generate Demonic Fury.

Destruction: Destructive Influence (Passive)
Your Demon's attacks reduce the casting time of your next Soulfire by X seconds, stacks up to Y times.

Both of those seem pretty powerful to me when using Demons.

For me, I'd like to try petless PvP, see how it goes. For PvE I'd prefer the Grimoire of Supremecy! Or maybe Service... But don't you take away my unfaithful minion!

Edit: Aah, seems I overlooked Obsidian9. It's late!.. sorry

[Deleted]

I just hope that it becomes so it will be a choice you make, like back in tbc, it seemed like the only valid dps came from people sacing their pets, and never seeing a warlock with a pet, just felt wrong. But i do like the idea of being able to sacrifice it, either if you dont want to use, or alternative on some CD, for some burst dmg. I havnt closely read the talents, but i guess its the first way.

[Gohzerlock]

I'd like to think warlocks have enough identity that they don't have to be thought of as "that caster class with pets".

I think it'd be nice to have one spec strong with sac, so we have the opportunity to be petless if we choose and if it fits the scenario.

[Jessicka]

Not entirely a sure thing at this time considering Destruction would not have use of destructive influence (might not even have the mana to multidot). Demonology mastery in the calculator at least increases the damage of demons. Granted Affliction is often viewed as the primary multidot spec.

With affliction it appears to be likely. However without any reasonable numbers it is not entirely clear if it will be required or not.

I'm not convinced Destructive Influence will make up for the additional damage a secondary or tertiary target would be receiving, at the present proc rate of Empowered Imp the DPS loss from the occasional instant Soul Fire isn't too significant. And for Demonology, the extra Corruptions you're able to put out could make up for the loss of Fury generation. Without numbers, it's impossible to say of course, but it's something that is quite clearly going to be the case for Affliction as no such contradictions exist there.

they said in a twitter or blue post that demonic sac would be 30% extra dmg and hp for 20 seconds then 15% dmg and hp for 15 mins so you get a little burst at the start of a fight it will be an awesome spell on some fights where pets screw up because there was quiet a few of them in craptastic cataclysm

people are really underestimating grimiore of service 2 pets for 30 secs is going to kick ass im still on the fence with warlock talents im sure im going to have alot of research to do in beta im excited for the first time in years to be playing this game warlocks needed a revamp for far to long

Supremacy and Service look great, although Service is a bit unclear, it just says a second Demon, not what kind, whether we can choose, or whether we can use it's utility etc; it's kinda sounding like it could be just another Guardian though, I really hope it's not yet another Imp. Stop with the Imps already, we have enough of them :|

[Jessicka]

I thought that I wanted to argue against this crap, but now, I want to push this stupidity to the max, and Sacrifice will be my cheerleader.

Please don't, they'll listen. Petless Demonologists tanking in permanent Meta form, with the ability to fly of course. Do you want to be responsible for that?

[banur]

if you dont like that talent then choose another of the 3

There is no "do what you like" in min-maxing, if it is the best talent for a certain fight and you don't choose it, you'll rightfully get flak for gimping the group.

[ophion1990]

Isn't a spriest just a mage...with different spells? A boomkin, an ele just a mage...with different spells?

I know what you're getting at, though. Pets are iconic for the warlock class, and it'll be a tad strange not seeing them. I personally don't seem to mind though, whether you've got an imp spamming fireball out or not, you're still a warlock.

^ This, it might motivate people who don't like pets to play a warlock maybe, dunno. Like you said I doubt it will ever be balanced in a way that it doesn't matter you have a pet out or not.

[Jessicka]

^ This, it might motivate people who don't like pets to play a warlock maybe, dunno. Like you said I doubt it will ever be balanced in a way that it doesn't matter you have a pet out or not.

We get this, the next inevitable step is Hunters, UHDKs, and Frost Mages whining "Why can't we sacrifice our pets to accommodate encounter mechanics?" You tell UHDKs and Frost Mages to respec; they dislike the alternatives (if the alternatives are even viable, we know nothing of balance for MoP yet!). Hunters still don't have the option. We're a pet class, and people should just suck it the hell up. Don't like it, reroll a non-pet class, there are plenty of them.

And that's why this MoP crap is so digusting.

" Our hope is that the Destruction Warlock will attract players who are interested in a playstyle that rewards spending resources at the right time, rather than constantly casting."

Translation: Our hope is that Mage, shadow;p, boomkin and everyone who want a Lock alt could play this class with one finger when they are in LFR.

Your main is a Warlock ? GTFO !!!

I feel there is far too much of this. Sure, we're the least played class, but someone has to be. Attracting people to the class would be done better by consolidating, refining and defining what we have, not subjecting us to yet another slew of unnecessary, unwanted and unwarrented changes; because it's those that drove people away in the first place.

[Nfariessence]

I feel there is far too much of this. Sure, we're the least played class, but someone has to be. Attracting people to the class would be done better by consolidating, refining and defining what we have, not subjecting us to yet another slew of unnecessary, unwanted and unwarrented changes; because it's those that drove people away in the first place.

It's because there are so many warlocks want to hang on to "cool" or "RP-esque" features of the class more than they want to, y'know, be useful or meaningful. Just look at the ratio of outrage posts over Chaos Bolt being gone (BRING BACK GREEN FIRE!!!) vs. the likelihood of an OOM, auto-wanding Warlock.

Warlocks need direction. If we're meant to be DPS, make us competitive DPS. If we're meant to be insanely complex DPS, fine - give us truly rewarding DPS as a reward for mastering that complexity. If we're meant to be uber-utility, fine - make us be ~true~ utility that groups will notice, and that helps out a group on most every fight instead of 1 out of 10. Make the specs distinct, and make them fit niches of existing raid encounters (Multi-dot, AOE, and Burst). Survivability, Survivability, and Survivability as our 3 spec choices really suck.

Direction, it's not just for Google Maps anymore.

[Deleted]

I think the choice of a possible pet sacrifice is a good thing. Especially if it's temporary. Sacc pet when you need the burst, have pet back when you need it. All int he same fight. But on the other side a warlock is a demon master, and i would feel naked without my pet.

[Uzkin]

I'm all for a pet-less warlock spec. The pet is such a hindrance on many encounters; it can despawn, refuse to attack, or bug in other ways. Mages and DKs can choose a pet spec so why shouldn't a warlock be able to choose a pet-less spec? And while we're at it, yes, hunters could have a pet-less "archer" spec as well (marksman is a good candidate).