[Cat] Feral Druid MoP Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

will i still be able as a feral to offtank something? i mean i can still shift into bear right? and i might not have the reduced chance of beeing critically hit but more stamina and could still tank as it is on live now? thanks

Not really no, as bear and cat shared a spec, means things like mastery and tier bonus's were also shared. Now they are split, and we don't get a lot of the cool-downs. We can go into bear form and maybe adsorb a few hits, but when you think warlocks can do this, for probably longer, also rogues for a short period of time, its almost useless to even consider this.

[exochaft]

Not really no, as bear and cat shared a spec, means things like mastery and tier bonus's were also shared. Now they are split, and we don't get a lot of the cool-downs. We can go into bear form and maybe adsorb a few hits, but when you think warlocks can do this, for probably longer, also rogues for a short period of time, its almost useless to even consider this.

Well, this is technically where Heart of the Wild comes in. It should increase the survivability of a Feral gone bear, as well as ensuring crit immunity for the duration, providing Vengeance, etc... about the only thing you don't get is the mastery bonus and Guardian-specific cooldowns. I think the adjustment to FR's scaling was partly due to HotW for non-Guardians (by no means the main reason for the adjustment, but I'd have a hard time believing Blizz didn't consider it).

I will say that Symbiosis for Rogues is still a pretty good equivalent, since it increases the rogue's armor, provides crit immunity, and a taunt. However, I think a Feral + HotW will be a better long-term tank than Rogue + Symbiosis, in the short term they're likely equal. I'm staying away from warlocks and their tanking abilities until they're sorted out, since they seem to be fluctuating constantly every build.

Regardless, the short answer is that Feral + HotW makes a decent tank for the duration of HotW, but they should still fall short of Guardian spec tanking and whatever hybrid spec one can conjure nowadays.

*edit* - Actually, I want to make a slight revision. Just compared Feral + HotW to Guardian with the same set of buffs... heh, it's interesting, here's the stats, take them at what they are.

Guardian: 27.2k Attack Power, 6.95% Hit, 8.72% Expertise, 82.6k Armor, 13.77% Dodge, 457k HP

Feral + HotW in Bear Form: 42.7k Attack Power, 21.85% Hit, 23.72% Expertise, 73.3k Armor, 19.29% Dodge, 443k HP

[ducklino]

I've Dueled a warrior and once he got to 30%? his 2nd Wind talent kicked in and duel continued for 10+min with him beign constantly at 30%, says something about our dmg

It says that you're slow poke. Its impossible to kill warriors with the current resilience change. Base resilience is 50%; With full cataclysm pvp gear gets you around 87%~90% damage reduction. Making classes with passive self healing impossible to kill. Second wind heals 3% every second bellow 30%

[TigOldBiddy]

*edit* - Actually, I want to make a slight revision. Just compared Feral + HotW to Guardian with the same set of buffs... heh, it's interesting, here's the stats, take them at what they are.

Guardian: 27.2k Attack Power, 6.95% Hit, 8.72% Expertise, 82.6k Armor, 13.77% Dodge, 457k HP

Feral + HotW in Bear Form: 42.7k Attack Power, 21.85% Hit, 23.72% Expertise, 73.3k Armor, 19.29% Dodge, 443k HP

Btw. dont see what ferals will get out of HotW on the first page, but with these numbers I would say u can still pretty good offtank as a feral, sure mastery might be diff etc. but Im not talking big Raid tank but do 5 Mans as a Feral maybe?

[aggixx]

will i still be able as a feral to offtank something? i mean i can still shift into bear right? and i might not have the reduced chance of beeing critically hit but more stamina and could still tank as it is on live now? thanks

No, you'll be about as effective as a resto druid trying to tank something in bear form, with slightly more dodge. And yes, HotW should in theory allow you to tank for 45 seconds. I've heard that the guardian portion works well enough, but unfortunately the rest of the talent still sucks.

[Fahrenheit]

What do you guys/gals think of this so far as the typical DPS build for raids?

Feline Swiftness over Wild Charge. Thought this may swap depending on the speed+AGI enchant vs the AGI enchant.

Nature's Swiftness over either. With some proper macroing this could be nice to keep yourself up plus toss the MT some help in "oh shit" situations

Typhoon over either. None really have too much use in a raid atmosphere.

Soul of the Forest over either. The plus 10 energy after using a 5pt combo will be very nice.

Mighty Bash over either. None have a ton of uses in raids, but you may have to stun trash from time to time.

I'm not sure of the last one. Either HotW or Nature's Vigil.

HotW has the nice +6% AGI passive buff, and you can off tank for a short amount of time, but disregarding the the off tank ability. Would the +6% AGI be better than buffing all damage by 20% for 30 second every 3 mins? This I think would match up nicely with berserk.

Thoughts?

[Keiyra]

Btw. dont see what ferals will get out of HotW on the first page, but with these numbers I would say u can still pretty good offtank as a feral, sure mastery might be diff etc. but Im not talking big Raid tank but do 5 Mans as a Feral maybe?

Those numbers are only for 45 secs every 6 mins since they are using HoTW. Early on, I wouldn't expect feral to be tanking in 5 mans (and as a healer, i'll be damned if i'm going to heal an LFD feral trying to be tank this early in the expansion with crappy heals and low regen) --- maybe in a few tiers when you out gear them.

Now scenarios is a different story since they aren't tuned to specifically require a "tank", feral going bear for those might be worth it...but sounds like in that case, just cc and single target burns mobs is a better strat .

TL/DR, you want to tank, spec guardian

[Zkall]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4032?page=2#40

Show your support by posting in the thread so we might get some blue response and necessary changes.

[exochaft]

What do you guys/gals think of this so far as the typical DPS build for raids?

<sniped talent selection>

Thoughts?

Well, I think it's really going to depend on the fights themselves, and as long as we bring reagents, we can change our talents on every fight. I haven't changed mine in a while, but for those who might not know, 1 dust = 1 talent changed (it doesn't reset them all).

The only tiers that I believe will not have much decision-making involved for Ferals are tiers 3 and 5. They all involved some form of CC, and likely your raid comp and/or encounter will make it an obvious choice.

The movement tier (tier 1) is likely going to be personal preference mixed with encounter restrictions. From a selfish perspective, there are fights where you cannot even perform or safely execute a Feral Charge (via Wild Charge), and a passive movement would be better. However, Wild Charge has so many different applications beyond selfish reasons that I cannot begin to describe them all, but those are likely situational. Displacer Beast is likely the only talent in this tier that a PvE Feral can easily disregard in most cases, the other two are a toss-up.

The second tier (tier 2) also will likely be a toss-up and personal preference. I can see how people may jump at Nature's Swiftness for instant Rebirths, but even in Cataclysm, Predatory Swiftness is almost always up if/when a Rebirth is needed (plus we'll be staying in kitty form in MoP for those anyways). However, better safe than sorry, I suppose. Therefore, the choice in PvE comes down to heals most likely. I think the choice basically is if your play-style is every man for himself or team player.

The fourth tier (tier 4) will probably change as our gear gets better, but from testing Soul of the Forest will provide the most stable rotation outcome. With our crit levels being what they are on the beta, SotF provides that extra bit of energy after every combo-point finisher to help get those combo points out fast. Unless an encounter does something wonky with respect to Stealthed targets, Incarnation is nearly useless outside of Berserk due to (le sigh) our crit levels... just imagine using 50 energy to Ravage while none of them crit, it happens. I'll admit I haven't played around with Force of Nature too much, but it would likely come down to whether the damage provided by the Treants outweighs the security of your normal rotation. I honestly think this tier would be more of a toss-up if we had higher crit levels starting out... but initially SotF almost seems mandatory for Feral.

The sixth tier (tier 6) will likely be personal preference and/or encounter-specific. I believe someone in this forum did the math for HotW vs. NV DPS, and they came out about the same in the end... leaving the choice between on-demand burst plus aoe heals or higher sustained plus utility form for 45 seconds. I'm staying away from DoC from a PvE standpoint for now, I want to make sure Blizz has finalized everything concerning that talent... but it'll likely be more for PvP.

What will my talent choices be for Feral? Psh, I'm going to be Guardian almost 100% of the time!

[Deleted]

No, you'll be about as effective as a resto druid trying to tank something in bear form, with slightly more dodge. And yes, HotW should in theory allow you to tank for 45 seconds. I've heard that the guardian portion works well enough, but unfortunately the rest of the talent still sucks.

My HotW + tranq healed the raid for 1.7m with our resto druids healing for 1.85m making it a very good raid cool down for big dmg phases. (8m cd means you'll only get it once a fight sadly :<

[aggixx]

My HotW + tranq healed the raid for 1.7m with our resto druids healing for 1.85m making it a very good raid cool down for big dmg phases. (8m cd means you'll only get it once a fight sadly :<

Well it will for sure boost your tranqs as a non-resto spec, but that doesn't necessarily mean it allows you to heal adequately outside of tranq.

[Razorcat]

It says that you're slow poke. Its impossible to kill warriors with the current resilience change. Base resilience is 50%; With full cataclysm pvp gear gets you around 87%~90% damage reduction. Making classes with passive self healing impossible to kill. Second wind heals 3% every second bellow 30%

I've noticed the same thing, but I don't think it will see live, or at least I'm sure it'll get fixed in the next patch after mop hits live. I mean it simply can't stay like that.

[Deleted]

I've noticed the same thing, but I don't think it will see live, or at least I'm sure it'll get fixed in the next patch after mop hits live. I mean it simply can't stay like that.

It wont go live like that :P

[Razorcat]

Google "Bajheera - MoP BETA 5.0 - SMF Fury Warrior PvP" for Warrior healing. It's madness >.<

[Deleted]

I think if I'd care about PvP I'd have pissed myself over the current damage on beta. Anyway, I was raiding the 10man heroic, Blade Lord Ta'yak and hell, our burst really seems to be lower than for other classes, but still I seemed to nicely ever be the last one on dps. Plus on that boss, when he jumps off from time to time and you have to run from the storm, Rip and Rake on boss seem to lift us there a lot.

Plus I noticed on the 2min+ fights that rake seemed to do quite a lot of damage compared to now. I was impressed, and happy.
Anyway I still miss having charge and my running speed both on the boss, at least on that I would have use for both.

And about symbiosis for us, ferals, really, so little use that I'm a little dissapointed. Though at least we can give the tranq and to tanks some CD's. (Like on most HC bosses I've realized the tanks seem to need it)

[Deleted]

tanks are getting totally gibbed in 25m testing atm so it pointless on them xD

My DPS last night wasen't to bad, peaking at about 70/80k but still only averaging 55k at the end (compaired to out bm hunter who did 90k)

[aggixx]

(compaired to out bm hunter who did 90k)

Hardly a fair point of comparison, considering hunters are ridiculously overpowered at the moment. Do you have any other reference point? Were you top/middle/bottom of the pack?

[Deleted]

Hardly a fair point of comparison, considering hunters are ridiculously overpowered at the moment. Do you have any other reference point? Were you top/middle/bottom of the pack?

I don't like to compare where i was in fights because the fight mechanics were different, but the closest fight that came to an ultraxion style fight i was near the bottom.

Yeah BM hunters are OP but we had rogues/locks not that far behind.

[Elunedra]

for cats (pure on dps base)
HotW gives 6% agi
HotW also allows you to cast a wrath each time you are 0 energy for 45 seconds, i know this seems weird, you loose like 3 auto attacks but you do a nice dameage with the spell, and you regenerate enegry while in your normal form, so instead of just auto attacknig until yo uhave 40 energy again you can cast a wrath

this means HotW also gives a small minor dps cooldown

[xrayEU]

for cats (pure on dps base)
HotW gives 6% agi
HotW also allows you to cast a wrath each time you are 0 energy for 45 seconds, i know this seems weird, you loose like 3 auto attacks but you do a nice dameage with the spell, and you regenerate enegry while in your normal form, so instead of just auto attacknig until yo uhave 40 energy again you can cast a wrath

this means HotW also gives a small minor dps cooldown

That just seems strange, but since we have to switch to caster form we might as well add moonfire to the rotation?