Content patches are generally free in sub MMOs. Players are not charged an extra $5 for patch 1.11 or whatever in SWTOR, WOW, Rift, TSW, etc. Sub fee isn't patch fee.
A sub based game charges for access to the server. The game and all that comes with it is yours once paid. For example, you can and will receive patch 2.0 when you launch Rift. You may not play unless you have a free account or a sub.
Access is paid by sub. Not patches.
Well spin it how you want but you are paying for that content with a subscription. They aren't free for you to play.
There is no spin. One can dl and load the patch of a sub based MMO without extra charge. You do not have access to the server without a subscription. That is exactly how sub based MMOs have functioned since 1999.
It is flatly incorrect to say TSW or Rift are charging you for a content patch. Because they are not. They are charging for server access.
You pay for access to the game. Any MMO out there patches content because they want to keep you playing. More playing may mean more subs, it may mean more people playing which means more people use the cash shop. Full servers and happy people refer friends to fill them up, whether it's a F2P or P2P model.
But no one pays ISK, Cartel Coins, or 480 microsoft points to install an mmo content patch these days. Only for the server access (if applicable), whether the patch happened or not.
If Blizzard called 4.1 a "mini expansion", the backlash would have been worse (even labelling it as a "major content patch" was a slap in the face). Why does ArenaNet get a free pass? "Because you aren't paying for it?"
Sitting in a local diner, I may not pay my server anywhere near what's expected at a ritzy reservation-only place. But for me to take shitty service from her because "I'm not paying for it" is disrespectful to any customer there.
~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~
Well whatever, paying money is paying money in whatever language you speak
Granted. However, what you are paying for is another matter entirely. A fact consistent across many business and services.
It is simply disingenuous to say, "these updates are free!" vis-a-vis many other MMOs be they f2p, hybrid and sub based. Because players are not expressly paying per patch in the majority of mainstream MMOs on the market.
Just as one bristles when GW2 is called "f2p", so too should you be adamant that patches are no more free in GW2 than in other MMOs with differing models of business.
~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~
It probably is fair to say many do play F2P or B2P games due to the sub fee's innate barrier to entry. A portion of such players probably would say they didn't feel they were getting the value of their sub too.Is that the only reason you're playing GW2? Fear of a subscription fee that irrationally makes every sub based game the bad guys out to get you?
Personally speaking, I don't mind sub fees but it definitely can be more than some can or are willing to spend monthly. As to value per dollar, I can honestly say I unsubbed specifically because I felt some MMOs were not worth the leasing fee; The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Tera.
Last edited by Fencers; 2012-12-02 at 09:50 PM. Reason: typo
One thing Colin said in the article:
"....more people who purchased the game so far since it came out than any of the numbers we expected."
Back in April, 3.12 million CD sales in 2012 were projected by Daewoo Securities.
http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/15...hmentId=155585
I think it's safe to say they've exceeded 3 million in sales
Valar morghulis
I think you are over thinking that a bit. First off, the "we" could mean an internal goal/expectation that the devs came up with. I don't think Colin would say "we" and mean himself and Daewoo securities. They didn't have any problem posting previous sales, if they hit 3 million they would likely do the exact same.
Or how about a subscription based game makes you pay for the game you already bought continuously until you quit? Guild Wars 2 is a one time fee all access game. Subs games are a pay once, then pay forever if you wish to play. It doesn't matter what the specific fee is for. The fact is you have to pay it. The fact is with Guild Wars 2 you don't. It's undesirable to pay a sub for alot of underlined reasons that have been beaten to death.
The thing is, "expansion" is an arbitrary thing, it has no inherent definition for size. It expanded the game, and it was "mini" by their standards, so technically it's fine, but really it's just marketing hyperbole. Like when some website called TOR's rakghul event a "dynamic event" and folks argued over the definition...
Either way, we can safely assume that either of these "nearly an expansion" patchs will be say, twice as big as Lost Isle? So a full sized zone perhaps. Hopefully with more to do.
As for the Island itself, it was obvious they'd planned on expanding it, there's even an Asura Gate being built, so hopefully something interesting pops up. I think GW2's strength is in building a world to play in, and having the world evolve and develop consistently is a bonus.
Talking as currently. An almost empty island doesn't count towards a "mini expansion". The content planned for it later is exactly that, for later not now which is the main gripe of this island as its not equivilant to Orr at all.As for the Island itself, it was obvious they'd planned on expanding it
Also the main woo over the whole mini expansion is its just sugar coating. Every other game pumps out more or the same amount in the course of a month or 3 and its a content patch. Why does Anet have to call it a mini expansion. Its a content patch with an empty island and a new dungeon not a mini expansion.
If they count the one time event part of the mini expansion well thats just fucked up.
Well, yeah, that's why the part you snipped was talking about "so hopefully something interesting pops up." because currently it's not interesting. (Though I did like the one-time event, if it was just too long.)
And again, my point was that there is no definition of "expansion" as some set amount of content. Yeah, we know what some other MMO's have done, but I've bought too many FPS "expansions" that were utter crap to give the word actual meaning to me.
IIRC, they didn't advertise a mini-expansion, it was just some dev talking about it as such, thus why I said "marketing hyperbole".Also the main woo over the whole mini expansion is its just sugar coating. Every other game pumps out more or the same amount in the course of a month or 3 and its a content patch. Why does Anet have to call it a mini expansion. Its a content patch with an empty island and a new dungeon not a mini expansion.
If they count the one time event part of the mini expansion well thats just fucked up.
My point is, the phrase doesn't mean anything, so arguing over whether it's enough to be a "mini-expansion" or "content patch" or whatever arbitrary phrase someone wants to assign to it is meaningless. Debating whether the patches cost money in a sub-based game is also totally besides the point, really. I'd think we could discuss the actual content of the interview rather than arguing semantics?
But it's the only argument you've actually brought to the case dude. "But you're not paying for it!" Or would you care to expand on your position? Because I may infact be missing something here, as is oft the case.
Irrelevant to the point at hand. Other games, sub-based or not, do not charge for Content Patches. If you're paying a sub-fee for the game, or not, you don't find a bill added to your account because patch 13.7 went out. In some Free-To-Play games, you may be charged a fee to access some of the features of a patch, but again not for the patch itself going live.Originally Posted by Kasere
Doozerjun was arguing that because Guild Wars 2 doesn't charge for patches (uhh, most MMOs don't, true story), that it's totally okay to call something like Fractals and lolsunshineisland (Thanks for that, Fencers.) a major content update or a "mini-expansion". So an "expansion's worth of content" that's coming out, is going to be how big? Considering the precedent already set by ArenaNet themselves, we really shouldn't be too excited. "But amg it's free" doesn't really apply here.
Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-12-03 at 01:25 AM.
~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~
Now I absolutely LOVE the new zone, the new instance, the new sPvP map and pretty much everything from the patch (ascended gear is neutral with me) an I gotta agree with fencers, was it a lot of content for a patch? Absolutely, but I'd hardly call it a mini expansion, it's just propaganda.
That being said I'm fucking psyched for the new patches if they're adding more the karka patch!!
Arenanet never used to be the proganda trolling morons they are today. maybe thats what happens when 2 of the 3 founding people leave. makes sense. once they left a few years back thats when its obvious the change in gw2's direction came about.
they never called halloween or wintersday events BIG CONTENT inclusions in gw1, but now, well egonet need to tell everyone that WoW is still evil and we are giving you everything for FREE FREE FREE.
but, they just wont remove diminishing returns, or the gear treadmill, or improve the crappy drops, or improve the money you make. its ok...its FREE!!