Should circumcision be the person's OWN choice?

[Funt Case]

So, pain that you won't remember as an infant. Or pain that you'll be fully conscious of as a teen/adult. Hmm, tough call.

Every part of your body has a chance to fail and cause pain. You dont cut off things in the off chance they cause a problem lol.

[Vuljatar]

Woah woah woah! So you're saying you're let yourself get mutilated? On purpose? That's crazy.

Actually that's what we call an adult giving informed consent.

I hope I've been enough of a drama queen to make you people understand how utterly ridiculous all this talk of mutilation sounds. Circumcision may be little more than tradition these days, but for fuck's sake stop acting as if it's some sort of human rights crisis.

I feel like a broken record.

When the person in question practices proper personal hygiene, the benefits of circumcision are essentially nil.

The drawbacks of circumcision are proven, and are what most people would consider significant.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 07:45 AM ----------

Furthermore, the argument that "I'm circumcised and my girlfriend has never complained about it, therefore it must not make a difference" is similar to saying "I was born with only 3 fingers on my left hand and I can type 100 words per minute, therefore those 2 other fingers would have been useless anyway."

[Deleted]

I think the whole circumcision or not debate has gone wrong.

I do not want to argue if it is better to be circumcized or not, the debate was about if it should be a persons own choice, and in my world that is extremly obvious. Everyone should have the right to decide by them self. I understand if there really is a medical condition that makes the circumcision a necessity, but otherwise it should up to that person when he is old enough to take that decision.

That bullshit about "you make decisions for your kids everyday" is just bullshit. We cant make excuses to justify some crazy idea. What is next, pre-emptive removal of appendix?

Let the person get information about the pros and cons, because what ever people say, there are pro and cons to both, and then let them decide if they want the procedure or not. Cant in my world understand why this is not obvious for everyone?

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

I'd say that the opposite is more accurate, based on the angry and rude nature of your responses to my first posts.

You still haven't answered, does my changing the word "chopped" to "sliced" make my statement more accurate and less sensational?

Except your style of arguing has been to ignore presented facts and to over-dramatize things in the exact same manner as Bill O'Reilly. The fact that I've decided to not argue with you about the subject is because of this and what you perceive as anger is actually just harshness.

[Legolasgirl]

Honestly I think circumcision should be left up to the boy/man when he is old enough to decide for himself, unless some medical issue comes up that calls for an early decision. When my brother was born my parents did not get him circumcised as they saw it as a waste or time, as do I. But by the time he was 4 years old he was still not potty trained, and my parents had been starting to realize that he seemed to be having an unusual amount of trouble trying to pee. They took him to their family doctor and after a quick examination he told them that for whatever reason his foreskin was not able to be pulled back enough to pee properly. The only solution was circumcision. They got it done and he immediately started to improve. Its been almost 2 years since then and he is fully potty trained and has no more problems going to the bathroom. As you can see, this isn't a choice that they could leave for him as his quality of life was suffering. I see this as a legitimate time to make this decision for your child, but not for the sake of religious beliefs.

[Vuljatar]

Except your style of arguing has been to ignore presented facts and to over-dramatize things in the exact same manner as Bill O'Reilly. The fact that I've decided to not argue with you about the subject is because of this and what you perceive as anger is actually just harshness.

I have acknowledged the fact that circumcision can help prevent infection. I don't recall you acknowledging the fact that if you properly clean your penis daily, the benefit of circumcision is negligible. Or the fact that a majority of women find circumcised penises less pleasurable, or the fact that circumcision has been proven to reduce the sensitivity of the penis, or the fact that it can contribute to various other sexual dysfunctions.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 09:09 AM ----------

Also I refuse to accept your opinion that using the proper literal definitions of words is being "overly dramatic".

It is, literally, disfigurement. It is, literally, mutilation. Part of the penis is, literally, sliced off. If any of these things sound dramatic, it's because they actually are.

[Kasierith]

Except your style of arguing has been to ignore presented facts and to over-dramatize things in the exact same manner as Bill O'Reilly. The fact that I've decided to not argue with you about the subject is because of this and what you perceive as anger is actually just harshness.

If people don't want to acknowledge scientific knowledge, cherrypicking whatever serves their emotional connection the best and flat out ignoring the rest, there's not much point in pressing the matter.

[Deleted]

Really? Funny because my cousin always had urinary track infections and the solution that worked was to be circumcised. I tell you this he wishes that it was done as a child so he did not have to go through all that pain and the very long healing time!

I was circumcised and am happy and had my son circumcised as well. I'm not religious and it was for nothing more than the fact that most males with UT problems and UT infections that can lead to serious kidney problems are uncircumcised. Over 90% of the men seen at hospitals for UT infections and complications due to it are uncircumcised.

For myself I don't remember it, it has not adversely affected my sexual satisfaction (can't say the same to women that have there clitoris circumcised now can we so apples to oranges!)

Your cousin needs to stop being a grotbag and wash himself more, cut or uncut, wash your bits!

[sweatymilk]

The fact of the matter is there is little to no evidence to suggest favor to either argument. Anybody saying that they know for a "fact" that: women prefer whatever, desensitization, or that it contributes to ED is entirely speculation and opinion from someone who themselves is not experiencing it first hand. While there is no data to suggest problems or benefits at birth - there is in fact a slight increase, (1-3%) in short term problems and ZERO percent long term increase in problems with late circumcision.

Nobody with or without a circumcision has any valid opinion to the matter unless you elected to have the procedure as a teen or adult and experienced both sides - of which I saw one person in this thread go through and his post was completely ignored.

This topic falls under the same light as abortion and gay marriage. While I may have an opinion one way or the other it does not matter - I personally am an American and while I may not agree with what my friends/family/neighbors or strangers do.. I do believe in our fundamental rights and it is not my place to tell somebody else how to: live their life, marry, or raise their kids. It is up to the laws both moral and statutory to dictate your choices and how you want to be perceived by your peers.

I myself am straight and feel uncomfortable talking about these subjects but the reality is that these topics can in some cases be a religious thing - we have separation of church and state here.. and I get upset when the government steps in and tries to set religious laws for us and thus denying that freedom. It's the parent's decision and I can speak from personal experience that despite being circumcised I do in fact live a fantastic life and I wouldn't change anything in it (career fire paramedic).

Also for fun I will link a video of a person of age getting circumcised, with no anesthetics, with a razor blade.

edit: I was unable to post a link as I do not have enough posts yet - search Google for "filipino man gets circumcised with a razor blade".
It should be the first result, from truegore.

[Kryss]

Why is male circumcision on unwilling victims still legal is the real question.

This.

Maybe you can defend circumcision for health reasons (which is really debatable : constant fight against bacteria is what allow our immune system to perform well. And genital bacteria aren't the most dangerous, easily kept in check with good hygien), but not on unwilling young children.

If it's a choice, then it had to be made by informed adults and applied to their own body.

Religious circumcision is just that: mutilation. The fact it happens in modern countries doesn't mean it isn't a vestige of irrational beliefs and it has to be put on the same plan than clitoris excision on young girls in less technologically advanced countries…

[Pool of the Dead]

Why would the Army force them to be circumcised if there is no medical benefit and it's as easy as pull wash done? Seems really odd grown men would have there bodies mutilated by a country establishment for no other purpose then to mutilate them no?

They no longer require it, and it was due to the fact that under extreme conditions in the Military men may have gone many days between being able to use clean water/materials to clean themselves.

Due to advancement in technology (being able to establish camps/clean regularly) and the fact we don't live in dirty trenches surrounded by the bodies of fallen comrades during war they finally changed it within the last few years to allow men to have either cut or uncut, as they no longer saw any difference and there was no longer any medical reason for them to do so.

[Deleted]

They no longer require it, and it was due to the fact that under extreme conditions in the Military men may have gone many days between being able to use clean water/materials to clean themselves.

Due to advancement in technology (being able to establish camps/clean regularly) and the fact we don't live in dirty trenches surrounded by the bodies of fallen comrades during war they finally changed it within the last few years to allow men to have either cut or uncut, as they no longer saw any difference and there was no longer any medical reason for them to do so.

What country demanded circumcision in the military? A very daft idea if I ever heard one. I have heard of trench foot, but never trench cock.

[zorkuus]

What country demanded circumcision in the military? A very daft idea if I ever heard one. I have heard of trench foot, but never trench cock.

lol

But yeah, this one doesn't make any sense. Circumcised or not you'd get whatever infection is coming at your cock if it stays unclean for long periods of time.

[ManyHamsters]

Also, I object to the OP using the term 'mutilation' to describe circumcision.
It paints everyone who HAS been circumcised (a decision that, as you pointed out, is rarely a decision they make on their own) as somehow disfigured.

It is an accurate term, and should enrage all of you who have had it done to you unwillingly. Don't do it to your sons, let them make the choice for themselves.

[Evil Inside]

As someone who is circumsized it really doesn't bother me in the slightest

+1. Hasnt hindered me in the slightest in any way.

[Selvari7]

Nothing wrong with parents choosing if they want their kids to be circumsized. Do people have nothing better to do than try to cause trouble.

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong with parents choosing if they want their kids to be circumsized. Do people have nothing better to do than try to cause trouble.

Causing trouble? Some would call that sticking up for a childs right to choose.

[Cybran]

Nothing wrong with parents choosing if they want their kids to be circumsized. Do people have nothing better to do than try to cause trouble.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-20503660

I dont know if it was linked before, but children die because of this. Female circumcision is considered mutilation and outlawed, i see no reason why little boys should suffer and risk dying for this nonsense. Let them decide when they are 18.

[Jackmoves]

If people don't want to acknowledge scientific knowledge, cherrypicking whatever serves their emotional connection the best and flat out ignoring the rest, there's not much point in pressing the matter.

The only decent argument for it is this, it's less uncomfortable having it done as a baby, but by doing it you remove the childs right to make that decision himself. Even AAP pretty much says "there is no need to do it, you can do it if you want to though".

I value peoples right to choose for themselves, others apparently value insignificant health benefits more then self determination, but to each and their own.

But yeah I'm not really unbiased on this issue, the thought of having someone having a go at my dick with a scalpel is cringeworthy to say the least.

[Pool of the Dead]

+1. Hasnt hindered me in the slightest in any way.

That you KNOW of, you can't say it hasn't hindered you, because you do not have the point of reference from not having your dick sliced.