If we would...

[Pull My Finger]

If loot in LFR would be removed. What do you think the communitys reaction would be?

Raid finder is there to let people who don't have the time to see raids

That's not true.

It's there for people to participate in content. It's there to provide players with different things to do in the game. MoP is in a very good place when it comes to this - pretty much anyone and everyone can make their "own game" and pick their personal variety mix of things (leveling, daily questing, collecting mounts/pets/transmog gear, running dungeons, doing PvP, raiding on various scales of difficulty - you name it; and last but not least, gearing up your toon) they like to commit their game time to. And that's great.

And I have to say: after all these years of stupid bickering and arguing back and forth I still don't see how it hurts anybody that some people they don't have anything to do with get to do a watered-down instance and collect some low-quality loot.

[LocNess]

I would not do LFR if there wasn't loot involved. Do I think it should drop loot? No. Do I feel required to do it to help my raid in any way possible? Yes. But w/e in the long run I don't care enough to have it nag at me.

[Kantoro]

Translation, I am elistist, scrubs who run LFR should not get the loot which I earn with my hardcoreness.

Nothing to see here.

[Hodenkrieg]

LFR is simply not raiding. You can ignore important mechanics, go afk and come back to auto awarded loot, or your 28 gold.

LFR in it's current state should be solely for "seeing" the content, maybe practicing what mechanics are included, scoping out positioning before stepping into a real raid. Loot is not necessary as it is hardly earned.

That doesn't even make sense. There is no negative drawback for dying in a normal raid. You could just as easily "prepare" for normals by... playing normals.

In fact, it would make more sense to practice in the setting and getting used to all the mechanics, rather than preparing in a useless husk of a boss fight that has half the mechanics cut out, gaining absolutely nothing but half a grasp on the fight as a whole, and then trying to re-learn everything in the next step up.

By your logic, LFR as a whole should be removed from the game.

[dryankem]

LFR is simply not raiding. You can ignore important mechanics, go afk and come back to auto awarded loot, or your 28 gold.

LFR in it's current state should be solely for "seeing" the content, maybe practicing what mechanics are included, scoping out positioning before stepping into a real raid. Loot is not necessary as it is hardly earned.

But not everyone can ignore mechanics and go AFK. Sure there are some deadbeats but even if a quarter of the players are AFK you will wipe. Imagine if it was actually difficult, LFR would never be completed. Sorry you dislike it but it doesn't mean that it shouldn't drop loot.

[Ugum]

The first time I run LFR, it's to see the content and get a general idea on how the basic fight works. After that, it's just to supplement my Raiding Gear. Once I have at least Normal mode gear in all my slots, I won't run LFR anymore. That's what I have Alts for!

[RoKPaNda]

But won't the people running LFR see that they get to see content, then prepare to raid normals. I don't say to join a hardcore guild and go pro 5 times a week, maybe a casual guild raiding 1-2 days per week clearing normal modes and progress at their own pace?

People should be inspired to move beyond LFR.

Why? I have no interest in moving beyond LFR. I had enough "real" raiding in Vanilla, TBC, and WLK. If it wasn't for LFR and more casual means of progression I wouldn't even play the game.

[Hodenkrieg]

Simply put, LFR is nothing more than an extra buffer between raiding and not raiding. it boosts stats and allows people who otherwise couldn't manage a raid a little bit more wiggle room in regards to slipups in real mechanics, and makes further content a bit more forgiving.

Sure, everyone isn't a godlike pro like you. You are truly the mecca of what it is to be elite. So I guess I would say embrace your special snowflake syndrome, because LFR isn't going anywhere. LFR doesn't make pro raiders, LFR hero's wont be doing heroics any time soon. stop worrying about other peoples purples so much lol

[judgementofantonidas]

Do you mind if I ask why? If you raid and are getting good gear why do you care if there is lesser gear given for lesser content? I'm seriously baffled by this. I'd really like to see an argument besides epeen stroking.

I look at LFR as a tool by blizzard to entice more players to step up thier game and move to end content raiding. I feel that it is a broken tool. It is NOT a simpler difficulty (in my oppinion) it is a loot piniata. Blizz leaves out important mechanics that if LFR players were forced to react to them (but at an easier difficulty) they would be more better prepared to step into a regular raid.

Blizzard traditionally offers loot drops in raids that make it easier to complete the boss THE NEXT TIME YOU COMPLETE IT. Each tier is designed to be completable wearing the gear from the previous tiers completion. LFR gear only fits into this in that it offers slightly better than 5 man gear to give (all the excuses) players a leg up stepping into regular raiding without taking the time or effort to learn important mechanics that if they DID learn them they wouldnt need the extra gear boost, albeit small, in the first place.

[Xiaya]

The entire point of MMO is character progression and unfortunately due to the road that MMO's have taken in the last few years you would be unable to offer things without compensation.

[parkerlynne]

I can't raid this tier, and so I do LFR. I don't win much but I like seeing the fights that I hear my friends talk about and I enjoy it to help me from getting rusty. If loot was removed, I'd still go and probably more than once, just not every lockout like now.

[Viggers]

there is a problem with this though. the vast majority of people posting here are raiders. as such, we see the content without LFR, so the obvious answer is no we wouldnt run it. for those that done belong to raiding guilds though, they may well run LFR just to see the content! skewed audience will give skewed results

[melodramocracy]

Discuss.

It's been discussed ad infinitum already. WoW is a reward driven game. Remove rewards and find that feature more or less abandoned.

[Orange Joe]

But won't the people running LFR see that they get to see content, then prepare to raid normals. I don't say to join a hardcore guild and go pro 5 times a week, maybe a casual guild raiding 1-2 days per week clearing normal modes and progress at their own pace?

People should be inspired to move beyond LFR.

Why? If they enjoy LFR and it keeps them happy what does it matter?

[Tikaru]

Then why would anyone run it more than once?

[Orange Joe]

The entire point of MMO is character progression and unfortunately due to the road that MMO's have taken in the last few years you would be unable to offer things without compensation.

I disagree. I'm pretty sure a lot would also. The whole point to ANY game is to have fun.

[judgementofantonidas]

Simply put, LFR is nothing more than an extra buffer between raiding and not raiding. it boosts stats and allows people who otherwise couldn't manage a raid a little bit more wiggle room in regards to slipups in real mechanics, and makes further content a bit more forgiving.

Sure, everyone isn't a godlike pro like you. You are truly the mecca of what it is to be elite. So I guess I would say embrace your special snowflake syndrome, because LFR isn't going anywhere. LFR doesn't make pro raiders, LFR hero's wont be doing heroics any time soon. stop worrying about other peoples purples so much lol

I am personally a very average player. I would like to key in on your post however. I recently was posting a guild spam on our server. I was looking for players who were no happy never completing a tier. We are one of only seven alliance guilds to legitematly do so with cata and the dragonsoul tier. A player from a "raiding guild" which I will not name so that they can stay protected from too much ridicule stepped up and said "but we completed it too, ON RAID FINDER". This individual was completely serious and speaking in earnest that he felt his guild had cleared the tier because they completed raid finder..............................


these are the standards that blizz, in some cases, is dropping our players to.

[Faroth]

How about we expand the experiment and remove loot from all three and see how many hardcores stick around. After all they're in it for the challenge and not the loot.

Or PvP is more fun because it's sporadic, unpredictable, and a fun challenge.......but PvPers won't PvP unless they get something for it.

[RoKPaNda]

I look at LFR as a tool by blizzard to entice more players to step up thier game and move to end content raiding. I feel that it is a broken tool. It is NOT a simpler difficulty (in my oppinion) it is a loot piniata. Blizz leaves out important mechanics that if LFR players were forced to react to them (but at an easier difficulty) they would be more better prepared to step into a regular raid.

Blizzard traditionally offers loot drops in raids that make it easier to complete the boss THE NEXT TIME YOU COMPLETE IT. Each tier is designed to be completable wearing the gear from the previous tiers completion. LFR gear only fits into this in that it offers slightly better than 5 man gear to give (all the excuses) players a leg up stepping into regular raiding without taking the time or effort to learn important mechanics that if they DID learn them they wouldnt need the extra gear boost, albeit small, in the first place.

I don't think you're looking at this the right way. Not everybody wants to or even should aspire to be in a raiding guild, casual or otherwise. My schedule is chaotic and prohibits it, and while I was a very hardcore raider back in the day I really don't miss it, but I do still enjoy being able to log in to WoW and join LFR whenever I want to and be able to do something. It's progression for my character and quite honestly it has no impact whatsoever on anyone that's in a normal raiding guild and thus I don't see why they seem to care. Why do you think that everyone should have the same goals as you? Normal raiding on a set schedule isn't for everyone, and it in no way hinders you for more casual players or players without a fixed schedule to be able to get lesser gear than you for less work. At all.

[slime]

I think a lot of people are missing the point here. OP is not saying loot should be removed from LFR - I think he is more on the lines of Blizzard's reasoning for having LFR is a crock of shit (as we all know it is) and to just come out and say, "LFR's intention is to give everyone that pays to play wow a dice roll weekly at free loot."

I am not saying I agree, but that is more what I got from OP rather than preaching to have gear removed from LFR drops.