"Gun Free Zones" around the President! Sign the petition.

[Knight Gil]

I don't get all this gun regulation stuff. I mean like with this one. What makes you think that having a gun free zone around the president is going to protect him? Some people just don't get it. Getting rid of guns is NOT going to solve the problem, it's the person behind the gun. Don't you think criminals are going to find other ways of getting guns? Like having them sent from other countries. It's not like they're going to say "oh well I guess I can't get my guns anymore because they're illegal or banned". You could ban all guns in the US and you still won't solve the problem. Let's say this were to happen and that there is a gun free zone around the president. Do you really think the president is going to be safe from people who want to kill him? I mean come on it's just like I said criminals aren't going to stop killing people just because they put in a gun regulation. They will find other ways to get guns and even ammunition and if not that they will find yet another way to kill the president one way or another.

I'm not bashing on the OP, it's just it annoys me that people think putting in laws to help prevent murders is going to actually help. Last I checked criminals don't abide by the laws, I'm pretty sure of that.

Sorry if I got a little off topic but this whole "getting rid of guns" stuff just irritates me.

Totally missed the sarcasm. (Or maybe you're being sarcastic too). However, this is still a terrible logic, for so, so many reasons

[Deleted]

I'm not bashing on the OP, it's just it annoys me that people think putting in laws to help prevent murders is going to actually help. Last I checked criminals don't abide by the laws, I'm pretty sure of that.

Sorry if I got a little off topic but this whole "getting rid of guns" stuff just irritates me.

Criminals indeed do not abide laws, but making it legal for them to buy guns is not a good solution, also define criminals, there are a lot of criminals who do not have a criminal record, so background checks won't help in some cases. You are not born as a criminal, but it sure is easier to rob a store(and make the decision to rob a store) when you have a gun.

Thats the problem, when is someone labled as a criminal? After he did jailtime? Because a lot of people don't want to be a criminal and will not perform crime after there jailtime (unless they can't find a job because of 1 mistake they made in their past).

Thats my problem with the argument 'criminals will always get guns, they don't follow the law', most of them will follow the law, unless they feel like they have no other choice (I'm talking about regular criminals/gangsters here, not about the rare wacko/psychopat).

In my view the best solution to gunrelated violence is to strictly regulate guns, get as much of them of the streets as possible. This is step 1.
The 2nd step is to get some goddamn universal healtcare(+affordable decent education for everyone) already so you don't have 'criminals' robbing stores and whatnot to pay for the medicine a loved one needs.
The 3th step is to integrate 'criminals' back into society by opening possibilities for them (education,jobs,careerpaths, lolpolitics) So they don't relapse back into crime.

These steps can be done in every order, just at least start with 1 of them.

The NRA is right, guns are not the problem, but they sure as hell are a very big part of the problem.

[S7orm]

removing legal guns will surely stop the threat against the president

[someotherguy]

Sigh, if people make fake petitions they will just not look at them at all.
Whoever signs it, isn't making a point, they are derailing a mechanism for people to petition to government officials.

[Beavis]

Best part is, this petition won't get shit done.

I think that's what's so funny about it.

[Sicarus]

Assault weapons then, I apologize.

You: I'll change the word which still means assault rifle.

They're not assault rifles/weapons, guy.

They're tools.

[Deleted]

You: I'll change the word which still means assault rifle.

They're not assault rifles/weapons, guy.

They're tools.

Tools with the primary design to kill (be it game or humans)
Yes its used in sports etc, but its not the number 1 thing they are used for.

[mvaliz]

You: I'll change the word which still means assault rifle.

They're not assault rifles/weapons, guy.

They're tools.

I won't say it... it's just TOO easy. :P


...on a side note, you clearly have a broad definition of what a "tool" is... mine is an item used is used for building/creating things. How exactly does a civilian with an assault rifle build/create things, other than fear and large piles of bodies - I mean?

[Sicarus]

Tools with the primary design to kill (be it game or humans)
Yes its used in sports etc, but its not the number 1 thing they are used for.

They're used for protecting yourself, hunting, sports, and a deterrent to keep yourself safe.

You treat death and killing as if it's deplorable, which it usually is. We all die all the time, why is it such a big deal?

I hate the fake-sympathy everyone has suddenly developed to further their cause for gun control, if you're truely so feelings-oriented, why don't you care about the people getting killed every day in Chicago, California, Mexico?

Guns aren't the problem, guns are not too easy to get, in Conneticut, the dude broke laws obtaining the guns, he didn't buy them from the Kwik-e-Mart pawn shop. So stop with that idiotic logic.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 01:43 PM ----------

I won't say it... it's just TOO easy. :P


...on a side note, you clearly have a broad definition of what a "tool" is... mine is an item used is used for building/creating things. How exactly does a civilian with an assault rifle build/create things, other than fear and large piles of bodies - I mean?

device for doing work: an object designed to do a specific kind of work such as cutting or chopping by directing manually applied force or by means of a motor
means to end: something used as a means of achieving something
something used for job: something used in the course of somebody's everyday work


A "tool" is not used to create or build things. A civilian with an "assault rifle" can hunt and create food for their family's table, they can create revenue from their purchases, they can create entertainment.

Only you, who is so fascinated and obsessed with death, sees them as pure killing machines. I don't, why? I think an entire thing's purpose through before mindlessly slandering what it is.

And really, you were about to call me a tool?

Kid.

[Grizzly Willy]

You treat death and killing as if it's deplorable, which it usually is. We all die all the time, why is it such a big deal?

Let's do nothing then.

[Sicarus]

Let's do nothing then.

Exactly, do nothing, stop trying to limit guns.

Look at Chicago, New York, California, Mexico.

Look how they're doing with gun limits.

I implore you to look towards the facts.

[Beavis]

Exactly, do nothing, stop trying to limit guns.

Look at Chicago, New York, California, Mexico.

Look how they're doing with gun limits.

I implore you to look towards the facts.

I'm a gun rights supporter, but this line of argument is incorrect. Chicago, New York, and California have elevated crime stats because they have elevated populations. The South, however, has more violent crime when adjusted for population.

[Knight Gil]

You treat death and killing as if it's deplorable, which it usually is. We all die all the time, why is it such a big deal?

Because humans have this thing called empathy. Mass murders is kinda a big deal for any human with a working brain.

I hate the fake-sympathy everyone has suddenly developed to further their cause for gun control, if you're truely so feelings-oriented, why don't you care about the people getting killed every day in Chicago, California, Mexico?

Isn't the reason why people want tighter gun-control laws because they care about those killings? What is your point anyway?

Guns aren't the problem, guns are not too easy to get, in Conneticut, the dude broke laws obtaining the guns, he didn't buy them from the Kwik-e-Mart pawn shop. So stop with that idiotic logic.

Actually, all reports point out to the fact that the Conneticut dude got his guns from his mom. Which were legally owned. Actually, most of these mass-murderers got their guns through legal means, and tighter gun-control laws would make it harder, if not impossible, for many of them to make such acts. Only the most dedicated of them would carry out their plans. Again, your point?

Only you, who is so fascinated and obsessed with death, sees them as pure killing machines. I don't, why?

Because he's not fascinated and obsessed with death. He's a responsible person, unlike you, who treat guns as if they were something that belonged in an amusement park. That's the attitude of an irresponsible person.

Exactly, do nothing, stop trying to limit guns.

Look at Chicago, New York, California, Mexico.

Look how they're doing with gun limits.

I implore you to look towards the facts.

Facts? What facts? Those statistics that have been shown countless times proving that the USA have far bigger gun-related death rates than other countries where there's tighter gun control? Why don't YOU look at the facts, hypocrite?

[Deleted]

You treat death and killing as if it's deplorable, which it usually is. We all die all the time, why is it such a big deal?

Cultural difference, in my country we are not used to cops shooting (if a policeman just draws his gun its a headline story). We don't like guns, there used to keep us safe by people who follow a few years of professional training. We don't need to keep ourselves safe, we pay taxes so our government can keep us safe.

And if we get in a fight for some reason, we fight the manly way, by using fists, the most damage this usually causes is a bloody nose or a black eye.
If we get mugged, its with a knife, muggers don't tend to kill people (because if that happens its big news and the killers rarely escape justice), just hand over your money and they'll be of.

Also the weaker (handicapped people, elderly people) rarely get mugged, the people who are the most at risk are young white males. Even petty thieves have morals, or some feeling of honor.

Burglars rarely carry a weapon, because the punishment if caught is severly harsher with a gun/knife than without. So in the majority of the cases, if you catch a burglar in your house, they will run away like rabits.

Yes this does mean that a few criminals with guns can go their merry way, but they rarely kill people, because they know they wont meet resistance from some douchie wannabehero with a concealed weapon.

[Wildtree]

Interesting reads:
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/26/bann...weapons_works/
http://www.salon.com/2012/07/25/the_...n_gun_science/

[IIamaKing]

I

...on a side note, you clearly have a broad definition of what a "tool" is... mine is an item used is used for building/creating things. How exactly does a civilian with an assault rifle build/create things, other than fear and large piles of bodies - I mean?

Doesnt matter what YOUR definition is, what matters is what the ACTUAL definition is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tool

a : a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task

A gun is handheld, and aids in accomplishing a task. Be it killing an animal for sport or food or killing a human( hopefully a bad guy )

[Wildtree]

Cultural difference, in my country we are not used to cops shooting (if a policeman just draws his gun its a headline story). We don't like guns, there used to keep us safe by people who follow a few years of professional training. We don't need to keep ourselves safe, we pay taxes so our government can keep us safe.

And if we get in a fight for some reason, we fight the manly way, by using fists, the most damage this usually causes is a bloody nose or a black eye.
If we get mugged, its with a knife, muggers don't tend to kill people (because if that happens its big news and the killers rarely escape justice), just hand over your money and they'll be of.

Also the weaker (handicapped people, elderly people) rarely get mugged, the people who are the most at risk are young white males. Even petty thieves have morals, or some feeling of honor.

Burglars rarely carry a weapon, because the punishment if caught is severly harsher with a gun/knife than without. So in the majority of the cases, if you catch a burglar in your house, they will run away like rabits.

Yes this does mean that a few criminals with guns can go their merry way, but they rarely kill people, because they know they wont meet resistance from some douchie wannabehero with a concealed weapon.

Germany waves and approves.

[Deleted]

A gun is handheld, and aids in accomplishing a task. Be it killing an animal for sport or food or killing a human( hopefully a bad guy )

Well in essence there are very few 'bad' guys, RL is not an action movie, where you often have black/white bad vs good guys, in RL this is almost never the case
You might think somebody is a bad guy, but those people often have mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers, friends, family to who'm he actually is a good guy.
Every story has 2 sides

[Lilly32]

What is it with Americans thinking everyone is out to get them and they need to defend themselves...invest in an alarm, deadbolts and a phone you don't need a gun to protect yourself for heavens sakes 0o

Really? Do you understand how alarm systems work? The alarm is triggered which means they are already in your house. The alarm company then has to call the police who then have to send someone to your house. But all that doesnt matter because by the time they get there your wife and kids have been raped and murdered and so have you. Working as intended.

[Elegiac]

Well in essence there are very few 'bad' guys, RL is not an action movie, where you often have black/white bad vs good guys, in RL this is almost never the case
You might think somebody is a bad guy, but those people often have mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers, friends, family to who'm he actually is a good guy.
Every story has 2 sides

If he is in the process of committing a crime and/or you are in reasonable fear of your life, then no, they do meet the definition of a bad guy.

There comes a point at which empathy needs to take a back seat.

---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 01:07 PM ----------

Also this "civilian gun ownership increases criminal incentive to carry guns" line that a lot of Europeans seem to be fond of is horse shit because the conclusion is not supported by the premises.