Why Guild Applications are becoming a thing of the past

[MarizzaDraenor]

Personally, I find it pretty hilarious that you have to apply to a Guild in a frigging Video game and that this is processed with the seriousness like a Firm would process a job application.

I always hated writing apps. Found it pretty useless waste of time.



That's what I told our Raidlead. He tested new recruits and, I admit, they performed less than stellar even for our modest standard. He was frustrated and disappointed. I told him "We will have to start teaching people. WoW is too old to expect only seasoned recruits that know what they are doing." He responded with "Sorry, I'm not goingt to start training people."

Well who else? Who else than mit tier Guilds is supposed to teach people? You do the same mistake Firms do here in Germany. Everyone is crying for "practical experience", you are basically out of luck as a freshman from University, yet no one wants to provide you with learning opportunities. Hell I had to do my practical semester in an uni lab, because firms flat out refused to take me as a free trainee lol.

Guild from guild has differences. On a lower guild if you have the patience to go through with it you can do what you describe and it can be quite challenging and fun to make a new guild with new players and a new community in general. Thats what we all did pretty much a few years ago when we practically didnt knew how to raid and had somone take our hands train us evolve us and turn us into raiders.

But on a guild that's been raiding for years on a certain standard (doesn't even have to be that high) you cannot do that. Because your older and better players will leave when they see the lack of progress and the cooking that's being done with the new ones.

Basically raiding guilds is what their name suggest. They feed on kills and progress. No matter which guild you choose that's what drives and motivates them from the worst to the best one.

From time to time there comes a great new player willing to learn and improve that has worked tons on their character and pretty much perfected their game play on their end. They will apply at a proper time when their spot is free (with content on farm that is not during progress) and they will get their chance somewhere.

Again it is not a perfect process. But it is the only process. Talking about normal guilds btw and standard applications. Not the extreme example people describe here with relationship status etc stay away from those weirdos.

[TreezusSaves]

A few things bub...many points the guy makes are quite valid. AND I can counter all of your comments with negetive, bitchy, attitude just as easily as you have done for him.
Not all the guilds have easy req's, and I have seen some that go WAY, WAY, beyond anything mentioned here, b/c as well as there being dipshits who apply for guilds, there are also dipshits who THINK they are a top guild but really are crap in your hat.

Then don't apply to them.

I can remember seeing questions about relationship status, and if you've ever dated someone strictly online...all sorts of batty shit.

Sometimes guilds have bad application processes, but it does not disprove the necessity of applications. It means that guild is either not all it's cracked up to be or the guild doesn't take the application process (or applicants) seriously.

Anyways, if you were trying to come off like a pro...you did, but not a pro player, just a pro at being an abrasive dick.
Time to shore up your people skills.

All the points he made are legitimate. Guilds don't have an infinite amount of time to go through every single person with 100% precision, since they too have lives they want to live. Filters are required, and applications an efficient way to filter out people who aren't worthy of a voice chat. After all, if they can't spend a lot of time writing out why they are good, how will they explain it on the spot?

[Granyala]

But on a guild that's been raiding for years on a certain standard (doesn't even have to be that high) you cannot do that. Because your older and better players will leave when they see the lack of progress and the cooking that's being done with the new ones.

If you only have mercenaries that want to be paid with epics: Yes.
If your people actually LIKE eachother and like to play together: No.

[Barnabas]

Unlike the OP I don't see a problem with guild app's. They serve their intended purpose which is to figure out if you deserve an invite to the guild or not. Once you get that foot in the door then you start proving on your trial period if you are good enough to keep that spot you are trying to get and if you're a good fit for the guild. Trial periods without loot are longer in some guilds to figure out if you're there to raid or are just interested in getting gear. Not all trial periods even if stated a long time will necessarily take as long as stated. You could become a full member much sooner if you get on with the guild and they see you aren't wasting their time. There are guilds that do skype interviews based off of your armory for an invite to their guild. Those are pretty rare though still if you want to join a decent guild. If you want to skip the app process entirely you better start making friends in the guild you want to be in.

[Noxina]

When you're looking for a new job, what do you do first?
Yes, you fill an application. Then if you get accepted you'll get the job interwiev.

It works exactly the same with guilds that takes things seriously.

Do you realy think they got time to give personal interviews to everyone who wants to join the guild?
I havent been a raid officer since WotLK, and I'm only focused on PvP this expansion (and being a reserve dps for my guild if needed). But after my experience of being a raid officer and class officer in a medium core raiding guild, raiding 4 days a week in 25 man mode, I learned the difference between a player that cared and not cared. If someone took his/her time to make a good application, and even showed me he could do the theory crafting needed for his class to maximize gems/enchants/gear (plate dps could use agi items for max dps, and if he could show me how to take the right pieces and why he pretty much had a spot for an interview there), I would offer him/her and interview and if he/she satisfied me and answered everything I needed to know he got a month trial in the guild.
The only thing different from trial and member was that he had no priority on any rolls, and only got what no one else needed. Guild repairs was for everyone.

I honestly dont understand why people complain about this, if you realy want to join a guild you have to show it. By first doing a proper application, then a interview (There isnt realy that many guilds doing this, for some reason), then sticking around for the whole trial period, wich can be speeded up if you're a friendly and good player.

[Beebeey]

I think she refers to "Guild Applications are a thing of the past", a humble anecdote by Barberry. As in, her viewpoint, not universal truth. But yeah, its an inaccurate title, comes across provocative. Provocative titles is something I see in the newspapers and such as well and I absolutely despise them. I find them trollish/flamebaitish. I much rather have a more informative and accurate title with a snide/sneer remark here or there in the article (if the writer really insists to provoke; because sometimes it does make sense to do this if it gets people to think outside of the box). Better statement would be "IMO Guild Apps are becoming a thing of the past" or something like that.

Is that better? I changed the title.

[Deleted]

If your people actually LIKE eachother and like to play together.

Such a thing doesn't exist in raid guilds. They kick whoever doesn't perform well, even if it's the nicest person in the world. And the other way around.

[Noxina]

DafuQ....

The only requirement we have is 18+.
Not because we don't like 15 year olds, but because we had it that at 22°° mommy pulled the plug on one of our tanks back in the day.

Haha this happend to my guild aswell, only that it was at 23.00, we could hear her screaming at his son for playing to long on teamspeak on some language, clearly mad at him. Then suddenly he DCed from WoW and TS x] We laughed so hard at him the day after, and from that day we never raided past 23.00.. So we started an hour earlier when we needed it for progress insted :P

[razski]

I run a guild (with my wife) who's sole purpose is to teach new raiders how to raid, getting them the experience they need to progress further.

We also have a progression side that does relatively well. (36th on the realm isn't a bad achievement for what is labelled a guild for newbies.)

And we DO have an application process, which has been there for a very good reason.

As to those who claim "if you don't do well in raids you get kicked", bullshit. We don't kick someone for performing badly, sure they may not get as many raid spots as some people who perform perfectly but we try to take them aside and teach them, show them where they are/were going wrong. Doing that has gotten us some kickass raiders who stay loyal because we got them to where they are. Some who progress to the point where we can't offer the progression they need so they leave for better, more experienced guilds.

Do we mind that? Hell no, it's why we do what we do!

[Barnabas]

Such a thing doesn't exist in raid guilds. They kick whoever doesn't perform well, even if it's the nicest person in the world. And the other way around.

That's an entire other aspect the OP seems to missing about raid guilds.

[Deleted]

It takes about maybe 30 minutes to type out a good application, it's a nice medium of initial communication between you and the guild you want to be in. The reason no-one will talk to you in game as a standard method of application is because it takes too much time, I've talked to quite a few guilds before in my applications but was only supplementary to my application and because the officer had time for it.

The idea that there's some sort of barrier to entry created by applications is complete bollocks, yes there's a certain threshold you will be required to pass in regards to game experience to apply to experienced guilds but if you're coming back after a break (from vanilla no less) you have no right to get entry to those guilds. Having played vanilla/gone on a 2 year break isn't a free pass into any ranked guild, perhaps some cutting edge achievements from the past hold some merit but that isn't what people care about. What they care about is you can play your class in it's current iteration at a competitive level. At least for decent guilds.

As for gear, WoW is a numbers game. If you don't have the gear for it you really shouldn't expect to be accepted into a guild doing content harder than you are. It's not arrogance, it's just that skill will only take you so far. A shit player with heroic gear will do better than a skilled player in blues, guilds who are progressing really don't have time to gear you up.

Though if you really still can't be bothered spending 30 minutes of your time on applying to a guild, perhaps that shows your level of commitment to that guild.

[Granyala]

Such a thing doesn't exist in raid guilds. They kick whoever doesn't perform well, even if it's the nicest person in the world. And the other way around.

Guess I'm not in a raidguild then. But what were those three big mean Mobs in Mogushan yesterday evening? oO

[shamental]

Well, back in the past the only way to see content was to be part of a commited guild, to be part of a group and worked hard every week on defeating the content. Right now this is no longer the case, for some people LFR is enough so a guild is only needed for the perks, and some others will just pug normal content without the commitment of a scheduled in a guild

[Deleted]

Haha this happend to my guild aswell, only that it was at 23.00, we could hear her screaming at his son for playing to long on teamspeak on some language, clearly mad at him. Then suddenly he DCed from WoW and TS x] We laughed so hard at him the day after, and from that day we never raided past 23.00.. So we started an hour earlier when we needed it for progress insted :P

Yeah and right before the DC you fired up Shazam, it said Britney Spears - Hit Me Baby One More Time and you were like ouch, wah...?!

[Beebeey]

Yeah and right before the DC you fired up Shazam, it said Britney Spears - Hit Me Baby One More Time and you were like ouch, wah...?!

Are you sure it wasn't Justin Beiber? Britney Spears is a bit outdated.

[Deleted]

Guess I'm not in a raidguild then. But what were those three big mean Mobs in Mogushan yesterday evening? oO

Casual guild that does raids or a guild dedicated to progressive raiding specifically?

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 01:10 PM ----------

Are you sure it wasn't Justin Beiber? Britney Spears is a bit outdated.

Is she even still alive?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I think she refers to "Guild Applications are a thing of the past", a humble anecdote by Barberry. As in, her viewpoint, not universal truth. But yeah, its an inaccurate title, comes across provocative. Provocative titles is something I see in the newspapers and such as well and I absolutely despise them. I find them trollish/flamebaitish. I much rather have a more informative and accurate title with a snide/sneer remark here or there in the article (if the writer really insists to provoke; because sometimes it does make sense to do this if it gets people to think outside of the box). Better statement would be "IMO Guild Apps are becoming a thing of the past" or something like that.

Agreed, its really just a post about someone stomping their feet because they don't like applications. Thats it. I really did expect an analytical post about something actually putting guilds apps in the past. But it wasn't. A ton of good advice in this post, but it seems to go over the OP's head.

[MarizzaDraenor]

If you only have mercenaries that want to be paid with epics: Yes.
If your people actually LIKE eachother and like to play together: No.

Don't lose the tree while looking for the forest. You join a raiding guild to raid. Everything else comes after and is more then welcome strengthens the guilds, creates bonds, you might meet some of those people in real life and becomes real friends, you will stick to your guild on hard times etc etc.

I am on the same guild since i 1st hited 70 in BC and started raiding. We are 6 years old i have been class leader, officer, GM and now just a social. Seen it grow from Karazhan pugs to the decent 25 man guild it is today. I will never leave this guild if this guild disbands i ll stop with it. I love this guild and its people.

I do not have the same expectations from our newer players though and how could i? They join us above all else in order to raid at a decent level. They dont have the same amount of commitment that i have and how could they? They are raiders they are great raiders in fact some can play on every single guild in the world and they are very nice persons also to have around outside raids.

Will they create bonds with the guild as time passes? Yes they will. Will they get attached to it? Probably all cause we are a pretty nice bunch. If something happens to us and we start sucking can i blame them for opting for a different guild. No i cant.

People join raiding guilds in order to raid at the level that's being advertised by the guilds. Thats the start and the end of the discussion you cannot blame them for leaving if you cant meet the standards that you set.

Thats not happening always btw. During LK heroic we where stack at a tremendous degree in fact we lost many core raiders and even had to take a 2 month break in order for summer to pass. We regrouped after covered the gaps and killed it and entered Cata. Do you know how many players we lost during those 2 months that we where on a raiding break (it was times of uncertainty we didn't knew how many we will lose or even if we will be able to fill the gaps)?

0. Not a single player left us during a 2 month break. But again if someone had we couldn't have blamed them. Raiders raid that's what they do and they need kills and progress in order to prevent them from eating themselves. Everything else comes after.

Thats why applications are needed. You cant mix a diamond performance and character wise with coal. It just wont work. Guilds best interests and longevity comes above all else we act towards that no matter what we personally might believe of an applicant.

[Pridelock]

This is something that has been on my mind for a long time. As someone who plays on a large server and someone who has pugged for the majority of my time on WoW, I find this to be one of the biggest issues with the game.

Most players reach a point where they would like to join a guild that is focused on clearing end-game content: After all, if you enjoy raiding, that is the logical next step. However, I find that the "Guild Application" system really does not do a player much justice in terms of screening potentials, and I'll explain why.

First off, I have met many amazing pugs in my WoW time and found numerous others without a home. Many have quit this expansion, because 'guild requirements' have become so rigorous about how much one theory-crafts, instead of actual game play.

I believe there is a time and a place to theory-craft: In fact, I love to do so, but I do not want to go into a two page discussion over one talent in an application for admittance or denial. In fact, if you are interested in finding out how knowledgeable I am about my class, why not just talk to me in-game or via voice communication about it? Actually talk to me, instead of being a snobby elitist that knit-picks everything and making assumptions.

---
Further, I can understand people want to find the right fit for their guild, I really do, but when you make the process so ridiculous, you will end up with eventually unhappy people who will possibly quit.

Another thing that really bothers me?
If you have something like three hard modes down in MV, should you really be so close-minded that you are:

- Unwilling to try raiders that haven't played since Vanilla
- Un-open to the fact that RNG exists and some people who are NOT guilded may have a harder time obtaining specific pieces for their class
- Unwilling to take on players who show potential and are trying to get better at the game

Furthermore, if these players can pug your progression, then perhaps you should give some of those people a shot. The whole third-rate guilds comparing themselves to others like Blood Legion is really annoying. You are a guild looking for decent players, who you can grow and work with. Everyone goes through a learning period: Some get better and some do not. Please remember you also once went through a learning period.

My gender is irrelevant on your application: In fact, whenever I see the gender questions I run, because it usually means automatic assumptions based on this.

Why do some guilds have trial periods that are insanely long? I can denote if someone is a decent raider within a few raids: I don't understand the point of this, or forcing people to crap out a ton of gold on repairs, just because it takes so long for a decision to be made.

Also, you can decline an application in a pious manner: You don't have to be a complete jerk about it. You see, us mid-grade players are the ones most likely to improve to a much higher potential: Yet, that cannot happen when you make requirements so ridiculous.

Raid with these people a few times and maybe you'll catch onto something here: People who do have the capability to excel given the chance. Yet, that chance doesn't come.

I'm OK with pugging the amount of hard-modes your guild boasts in the meantime. If people like me can do it with complete strangers, I'm pretty sure they would do 100x better with guild mates. This and many other reasons I feel are part of the reason so many mid-grade players are leaving the game.

Flowers grow with water and sunshine: Drowning them in water stifles potential growth and serves no purpose other than killing the plant.

On that note:

What do you hate about guild applications and the whole process?

I think you are trying to query such a fine line. I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. I run a middle of the road 10man team that have a couple of heroic encounters down. We only accept new players from an application on the forums. There are several reasons for this. We want to ensure that the person that is trying to join our team is going to fit in. We want to make sure that we keep players of a certain age, understand peoples availability, understand a little about the actual person that is trying to join us. We also ask about previous raid experience to give us an idea of how exposed someone has been. This doesn't mean they are less able but it gives us a good idea that if someone has seen all of the content pre-nerfs they are going to have a good idea how to play. This also gives us a understanding on how they can fit into the guild - role they can play etc. Someone that has played a character for 5 years probably has a good idea on how best to use a valid offspec etc. It also gives us a little indication of how dedicated someone could be. A indepth honest application that has read the rules before applying usual means that they will read tactics and understand things a lot better than someone who can't be bother reading up on things.

We also keep people on trial for what you would see as too long I am sure (We've had one player on trial for 6 weeks). This is because we want to ensure that the players reliablity and we need to make sure that they are upto the standard of the current team. Adding players into a guild that lower the standard isn't great. This doesn't mean we don't give people the chance to prove themselves. We help our trialists perform better by helping and suggesting better things to do.

We also ask for applications that way so we can ask the thoughts of the rest of the guild. You don't want to invite a player you hardly know that is known by the main tank of your guild and totally hates them. It upsets the harmony of the guild and creates problems going forward.

Guild Applications - Are to ensure the guilds best interests stay the main cause. There are several pro's and con's to applications. However, the applicant is wanting to join your guild - they should abide by the structure set-out.

I am all for applications and believe its a great way of doing things. Obviously some guilds go over the top in my opinion however that is just my opinion - as long as those guilds feel its justified then its thier guild they can run it how they like.

Just my thoughts and opinions

Ta

[Beebeey]

Agreed, its really just a post about someone stomping their feet because they don't like applications. Thats it. I really did expect an analytical post about something actually putting guilds apps in the past. But it wasn't. A ton of good advice in this post, but it seems to go over the OP's head.

I've already explained that I have taken into account things stated here. I'm not retarded - I already knew what half the people were going to say here before it was said. Thanks for that.