More class changes

[eschatological]

Did you know that Demo warlocks couldn't land a Hand of Gul'dan on Ultraxion, the only DPS check in H-DS, because it was technically flying? And that their pet's thus missed out on 5% crit from the boss not having that debuff, at a time when demo was the top warlock spec?

You know how long that lasted?

Oh yeah, all tier.

[Tehstool]

doesn't make it not broken... the mechanics are incorrect. you think it would take a tier or more if it was mages not getting the buff right???

I never said it wasn't broken, I was just saying we were lower than we should be on protectors and all the other fights with those sort of buffs we are a tad bit lower, but not nearly as low as where we'd be if that buff had nearly 100% uptime and such a huge damage gap (us getting a ~76.5% damage gain and other classes getting a 90%;13.5% difference) like the protectors buff. With fights lie H sha and fearless. There is like what, a 2 minute interval on each ominous cackle? That would mean every 4 minutes you get it. Which would mean just about a 7.5% damage gain for everyone else and a 6.375% for us presuming perfect conditions, but there aren't perfect conditions for the other classes and there are for hunters. If you are ignoring the adds then movement is a huge factor (except OP locks). That would bring their damage buff a bit lower, I'm uncertain of the number, but the damage gap would be quite small considering it's a 1.125% gap before movement. Then in P2 we come back and our aoe is pretty good (except OP locks again). I'd say on sha it's ok. On gara'jal, it's kind of hard to determine the exact numbers, but it's not all that bad.

Did you know that Demo warlocks couldn't land a Hand of Gul'dan on Ultraxion, the only DPS check in H-DS, because it was technically flying? And that their pet's thus missed out on 5% crit from the boss not having that debuff, at a time when demo was the top warlock spec?

You know how long that lasted?

Oh yeah, all tier.

Hunter pet's couldn't auto cast rabid, so if you didn't have it macrod into anything you basically missed out on the CD. A LOT of hunters didn't know about this, so essentially the same thing.

[Nemesis003]

I never said it wasn't broken, I was just saying we were lower than we should be on protectors and all the other fights with those sort of buffs we are a tad bit lower, but not nearly as low as where we'd be if that buff had nearly 100% uptime and such a huge damage gap (us getting a ~76.5% damage gain and other classes getting a 90%;13.5% difference) like the protectors buff. With fights lie H sha and fearless. There is like what, a 2 minute interval on each ominous cackle? That would mean every 4 minutes you get it. Which would mean just about a 7.5% damage gain for everyone else and a 6.375% for us presuming perfect conditions, but there aren't perfect conditions for the other classes and there are for hunters. If you are ignoring the adds then movement is a huge factor (except OP locks). That would bring their damage buff a bit lower, I'm uncertain of the number, but the damage gap would be quite small considering it's a 1.125% gap before movement. Then in P2 we come back and our aoe is pretty good (except OP locks again). I'd say on sha it's ok. On gara'jal, it's kind of hard to determine the exact numbers, but it's not all that bad.



Hunter pet's couldn't auto cast rabid, so if you didn't have it macrod into anything you basically missed out on the CD. A LOT of hunters didn't know about this, so essentially the same thing.

you are missing the buffs from H stone guards, and Will of the emp.. its over 1/3 of the fights that hunters are shafted on due to blizzard not doing their job

[Tehstool]

you are missing the buffs from H stone guards, and Will of the emp.. its over 1/3 of the fights that hunters are shafted on due to blizzard not doing their job

Ok, my bad about stone guard, I forgot about it since it is so trivial now. Imo on will of the emperor we shouldn't be getting titan gas because we are ranged. It's not like our dps is terrible on those fights, sure it's a bit lower, but it's not the end of the world.

It's still something I'd wish they'd change by now though.

All in all I do agree with you and say that our damage is pretty low on those fights in comparison to the other classes. It would be nice for some sort of change tbh.

[Nemesis003]

Ok, my bad about stone guard, I forgot about it since it is so trivial now. Imo on will of the emperor we shouldn't be getting titan gas because we are ranged. It's not like our dps is terrible on those fights, sure it's a bit lower, but it's not the end of the world.

It's still something I'd wish they'd change by now though.

All in all I do agree with you and say that our damage is pretty low on those fights in comparison to the other classes. It would be nice for some sort of change tbh.

the buff read "All melee damage increased 25%" i didn't know our pets attacked at ranged... Also did you know that if a warlock goes demo form and melees they get the buff yet they are a ranged class. It applies to everything melee but pets.

There is an easy fix to all of this. Instead of making it damage gain on players, make it increased damage taken on the boss, like Recklessness on windlord. Its not a hard thing to fix, its just something blizzard doesn't care to fix because hunters are not a majority our a loud class like monks, DKs or mages.

[Tehstool]

the buff read "All melee damage increased 25%" i didn't know our pets attacked at ranged... Also did you know that if a warlock goes demo form and melees they get the buff yet they are a ranged class. It applies to everything melee but pets.

There is an easy fix to all of this. Instead of making it damage gain on players, make it increased damage taken on the boss, like Recklessness on windlord. Its not a hard thing to fix, its just something blizzard doesn't care to fix because hunters are not a majority our a loud class like monks, DKs or mages.

The problem with that is that they are attacking the boss with a melee attack and aff is the best spec for that class on that fight and the melee buff is there because melee don't get 100% uptime. If our pet got it our pet would have 100% uptime and it wouldn't be fair.

[Nemesis003]

The problem with that is that they are attacking the boss with a melee attack and aff is the best spec for that class on that fight and the melee buff is there because melee don't get 100% uptime. If our pet got it our pet would have 100% uptime and it wouldn't be fair.

it would be just fine, then we would actually be able to compete in damage on that fight. Its not a matter of what spec is best for the fight its a matter of the mechanics ignoring a major part of 1 class that they can do nothing about. Not to mention even with reduced uptime on that fight melee are still top damage, having put pets have the uptime wouldn't magically make it so we are top damage... even if a BM hunter trained the boss (which would never happen) they still wouldn't beat a multi dotter or any melee. As the hunter would only get part of the buff.

Hunters can't cleave = reduced damage on rages compared to multi dotters and melee cleavers
Hunters even with the buffed SrS cannot do evenhalf the damage of a real multi dotter for the courages and strengths.
Hunters pretty much have to just leave their pet on a boss otherwise we lose even more damage with the retarded AI trying to move the pet around.

And you say pets actually getting the buff they are supposed to get would be OP. Honestly we would still prolly be the worst on that fight even if we got the buff.

[Tehstool]

it would be just fine, then we would actually be able to compete in damage on that fight. Its not a matter of what spec is best for the fight its a matter of the mechanics ignoring a major part of 1 class that they can do nothing about. Not to mention even with reduced uptime on that fight melee are still top damage, having put pets have the uptime wouldn't magically make it so we are top damage... even if a BM hunter trained the boss (which would never happen) they still wouldn't beat a multi dotter or any melee. As the hunter would only get part of the buff.

Hunters can't cleave = reduced damage on rages compared to multi dotters and melee cleavers
Hunters even with the buffed SrS cannot do evenhalf the damage of a real multi dotter for the courages and strengths.
Hunters pretty much have to just leave their pet on a boss otherwise we lose even more damage with the retarded AI trying to move the pet around.

And you say pets actually getting the buff they are supposed to get would be OP. Honestly we would still prolly be the worst on that fight even if we got the buff.

Hunters already can compete. We still are a bit low in comparison to the other classes on that fight though because of the reasons you listed.I said it wouldn't be fair, not OP. There is a difference.

[Deleted]

Just to add my 2 cents:
At the moment I don't feel as if the hunter class is actually in a bad position when it comes down to dps (granted, we are not a hardcore guild, but we at least have decent dps and don't have the feeling I'm really falling behind there), but infight the prio/rotation feels a bit clunky and due to the high number of skills it doesn't feel as "fluid" as it used to be.
It might just be me, but simple things just like having Dire Beast proc as passive skill, would be a huge improvement for my gaming comfort. I think the class design is ok, actually, I just wish for just a little less stressfull gameplay. I'd rather worry about mechanics than a choice of 4 active skills that run off cooldown at the same second.

[Spectral]

Hunter pet's couldn't auto cast rabid, so if you didn't have it macrod into anything you basically missed out on the CD. A LOT of hunters didn't know about this, so essentially the same thing.

Bad (or uninformed) players not min/maxing isn't terribly similar to having a plainly broken mechanic that has no workaround.

[Tehstool]

Bad (or uninformed) players not min/maxing isn't terribly similar to having a plainly broken mechanic that has no workaround.

It is similar in the sense that they are losing damage. Feral druids had to mangle that fight which was a dps loss. They didn't really fix any class issues on that fight.

[Spectral]

It is similar in the sense that they are losing damage. Feral druids had to mangle that fight which was a dps loss. They didn't really fix any class issues on that fight.

One class literally couldn't avoid losing damage, purely due to a bug. Another could avoid losing any damage with a simple macro. Another lost damage in a "working as intended" fashion. I don't really see these as similar.

[Steliios]

we r fine

[Tehstool]

One class literally couldn't avoid losing damage, purely due to a bug. Another could avoid losing any damage with a simple macro. Another lost damage in a "working as intended" fashion. I don't really see these as similar.

Just depends on how you look at it. They were all annoying things class X had to deal with.

[Spectral]

Just depends on how you look at it. They were all annoying things class X had to deal with.

That's fine. I guess I don't really know why I'm arguing this, it's a total nitpick that never really caused progression issues (and I was playing RDruid at the time anyway!).

[Windthorn]

Severe lack of hunter changes right now. Wonder if all we will be getting are these QoL changes and no more. MM is still a dead spec, Blizz must know this.

[Nemesis003]

Typical Blizzard... promise all these changes when in interviews and what not but when it comes time to do them nothing happens.

[Deleted]

Hunters are fine overall, but they sure aren't on top. We still have Powershot and Glaive Toss bugged, though, not to mention still bad pet mechanics.

Other than that, I'd like to know from those saying "we can top meters on some fights"... which fights exactly? If you check http://www.worldoflogs.com top 10s, you'll find only one hunter in 32 heroic charts (including 10 and 25 man). We're certainly not gimping our raid groups, but we're far from being a good dps class atm.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

Hunters are fine overall, but they sure aren't on top. We still have Powershot and Glaive Toss bugged, though, not to mention still bad pet mechanics.

Other than that, I'd like to know from those saying "we can top meters on some fights"... which fights exactly? If you check http://www.worldoflogs.com top 10s, you'll find only one hunter in 32 heroic charts (including 10 and 25 man). We're certainly not gimping our raid groups, but we're far from being a good dps class atm.

there's just no point in bringig wol up for an overall comparison.
lets assume mages and locks have a 5-10% higher damage potential, isn't it kind of obvious, that the best 200 mages/wls with a 5-10% damage boost compared to any other class will beat everyone else? that doesn't mean that all other classes that get beaten by them are "far from being a good dps class"
just means that wls+mages (and rouges/warris in specific fights) are a bit to powerfull, which is going to be adressed.

I guess some changes will be coming before 5.2, but not much probably. nothing as major as Serpent Sting and AoH buff though in terms of damage.
I for my part would be content if they'd fix our lvl 90 tier

[Tastic]

I'm so confused at how hunters are in a bad spot right now. So what if we don't benefit like some other classes to some buffs? You do realize that hunters still fulfill a role in raids now right? We're the most mobile DPSer in the game at the moment, we have insane utility at the drop of a hat. Our pets do incredible damage and still attack if we're CC'ed. We're competitive on meters, may not be on top but honestly, who cares?

Look at DS and think about how most progression guilds didn't even bring a hunter in for progression because they were so awful and it was literally gimping the raid. Now think about the current tier and how some guilds bring 3 or more hunters in each kill and all of them are competitive with the rest of the raid group.

BM is very high burst and single target damage, Surv is high burst and high AOE damage, MM could technically be classified as both if you know how to play it right. So what if MM isn't doing as much damage as the others? It's by no means a worthless spec, people choose not to play it because they min/max and that spec has about 15 more buttons to push. No class will ever be perfect, bottomline. Get over it.

Nemesis, you're a moron. Link me your armory and show us exactly how qualified you are to be whining about some of these topics you love to bring up. Link me a WoL and show me how you're doing everything at least 90% correct and getting destroyed. A lot of what you talk about sounds like whining of a bad player. Please prove me otherwise because a lot of the things you bring up are exaggerated and sound like long drawn out excuses as to why you suck as a player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A