[US] Nurse refuses to perform CPR

[Catta]

What most of the people in the thread who werent knee jerk responding was that they were assuming there was a DNR in place. Nurses do a have a duty to act under law to respond in a case like this unless there is a DNR.

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 11:23 PM ----------


That is true for emergency response personnel like EMT's and paramedics, but not true for a nurse who is caring for a patient in a facility. We are responsible to have all the pertinent information from that patient's records, including DNR status. If we violate a DNR, we are indeed held liable

You have over 10 posts now, so you should be able to link. Linkie linkie please.

[Ifeanychukwu]

If they want death, they can do it themselves, but I am not going to watch while they die. If they truly want to die, do it when I am not in the room. I am sick of seeing people die.

I'm pretty sure that's considered suicide. Also, as far as I know, suicide is illegal... somehow, and can get your put in either a mental institute or prison (not sure about the second). Forgetting all of that, how is an 87 year old woman supposed to "do it herself"?

[Catta]

Have a source on that? The DNR is present whether or not someone is aware of it. Mind, the possibility of a non-medical person coming in contact with someone with an active DNR is fairly slim.

Its the same as with giving blood to Jehova's witnesses. If they do not have papers on them saying that they explicitly do not want this then you aren't at fault for giving them blood. Nor would you be at fault if you didnt check their pockets before cutting it off them and going to work like if they had been stabbed and were bleeding to death.

[markos82]

Some 10 years ago I was in hospital for little more then 30days. And during that time i watched 15 ppl die in agony, kidney failure, liver disease, cancer, total organ failure... Has anyone of you witnessed that? Hell when you see one person dieing in agony everything is trivial let alone 15!!! When you talk to a person and 2 hours later he is dieing in agony is, welll hard.. But whats important is that every one of them would have chosen to die and not suffer for even one hour let alone day. What family wants isn't important in that case, you have every right to be mad at doctors, nurses, but that is life, we are born with tears in our eyes but most of us wanna die with our eyes closed and a sleep. That doesnt happen to us. I So after watching 15 peple dieing i know that i would rather die without pain then to suffer.

So if family is at peace with her passsing then i dont see the problem. And as someone said giving CPR to a old person is like giving it to baby, you can break her ribs and then what...

[Nuclear Launch Detected]

I'm pretty sure that's considered suicide. Also, as far as I know, suicide is illegal... somehow, and can get your put in either a mental institute or prison (not sure about the second). Forgetting all of that, how is an 87 year old woman supposed to "do it herself"?

All old folks homes should be nuked from orbit if you ask me. Have you seen the deplorable conditions these hapless souls live in? I would just shoot myself in the head if I had to be wheeled into the home day in and day out because I'm just to old to not know how to die.

Just my experience is all.

[yurano]

That is fucked up, I would have done CPR regardless.

And probably lost your license/career in the process. There's a very fine line medical professionals walk because they're essentially lords of your medical treatment (essentially they have control over your life). As a result, there's a lot of laws and policies governing what medical professionals can and cannot do while on duty. CPR on someone with DNR or otherwise refuses treatment is considered battery, punishable by the law. Chances are, the nurse is at a palliative care center where every single patient has a DNR. Otherwise, why would they have a policy where nurses aren't allowed to perform CPR? Sounds like a pretty illegal policy unless there's another issue that takes precedence (like DNRs or lack of CPR certification for the facility).

I've heard of a story where two paramedics showed up on scene to a vehicular collision where a pregnant mother was confirmed dead. The paramedics were able to get a pulse on the fetus. The father pleaded with the paramedics to save the baby. Knowing transport to a hospital wouldn't be quick enough to save the fetus, the two paramedics performed a ghetto c-section on the mother's corpse and delivered a healthy baby. Years later, a scumbag lawyer suing on behalf of the father was able to win a civil lawsuit against the paramedics, causing them to lose their licenses.

Anyone criticizing the actions of the nurse are ignorant of the clear legal limitations of a medical professionals' scope of practice. Breech of these policies put you at risk of a civil lawsuit, loss of license and even criminal prosecution.

[Sayl]

It doesnt state anything about a DNR in the first link - does it do so in the other links?

The local NBC affiliate says there was no DNR (link w/video).

[Darkrulerxxx]

You guys are so silly taking with the side that of the dispatcher. Its a retirement home, the lady had a DNR order on her. You can't break it without incriminating yourself so it was the correct course of action. The facility knew what they were doing.

[Kasierith]

Its the same as with giving blood to Jehova's witnesses. If they do not have papers on them saying that they explicitly do not want this then you aren't at fault for giving them blood. Nor would you be at fault if you didnt check their pockets before cutting it off them and going to work like if they had been stabbed and were bleeding to death.

DNR's are a bit different, as they're specifically issued as opposed to being a part of a patient profile with or without medical oversight. If someone has a DNR, it is expected that an institution and all who work at it are aware of the DNR.

[Catta]

The local NBC affiliate says there was no DNR (link w/video).

You guys are so silly taking with the side that of the dispatcher. Its a retirement home, the lady had a DNR order on her. You can't break it without incriminating yourself so it was the correct course of action. The facility knew what they were doing.

Whats it gonna be...

[Darkrulerxxx]

The local NBC affiliate says there was no DNR (link w/video).

there is nothing in this article saying that there wasn't a DNR. The facility has a requirement to have a DNR in order to stay at that residency. thats how it is

[Sayl]

the lady had a DNR order on her

She did not, according to the video I posted above.

[Catta]

DNR's are a bit different, as they're specifically issued as opposed to being a part of a patient profile with or without medical oversight. If someone has a DNR, it is expected that an institution and all who work at it are aware of the DNR.

I really can't see someone faulting someone for saving another's life in good faith. If it can be proven they knew about the DNR then maybe.

[Nuclear Launch Detected]

omg guys! an old person died. Stop the fucking presses.

[Sayl]

there is nothing in this article saying that there wasn't a DNR. The facility has a requirement to have a DNR in order to stay at that residency. thats how it is

It's clearly stated by the news anchor in the video. Watch it.

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 05:37 PM ----------

Whats it gonna be...

Well, if people would bother to watch the video, it wouldn't be a mystery.

[yurano]

I really can't see someone faulting someone for saving another's life in good faith. If it can be proven they knew about the DNR then maybe.

Any breech of "scope of practice", regardless of whether any harm was done or how much good was performed is actionable (legally speaking).

I've heard of a story where two paramedics showed up on scene to a vehicular collision where a pregnant mother was confirmed dead. The paramedics were able to get a pulse on the fetus. The father pleaded with the paramedics to save the baby. Knowing transport to a hospital wouldn't be quick enough to save the fetus, the two paramedics performed a ghetto c-section on the mother's corpse and delivered a healthy baby. Years later, a scumbag lawyer suing on behalf of the father was able to win a civil lawsuit against the paramedics, causing them to lose their licenses.

[Zephyr Storm]

I always laugh when people come into discussions like these with little to no experience in the healthcare field or make emotionally based comments.

1. She was 87 years old. Do any of you have the first clue what kind of state she would have been in if the nurse had actually given CPR? Broken ribs, punctured lungs, along with a myriad of other problems just to name a few. Not to mention whatever prior condition caused her to collapse in the first place. More time, money, effort, and resources would have been spent on a lost cause. That may sound cruel to some of you, but that's reality. I see time and time again, people who are age 85+ being treated like they still have 80 more years left to live. That's not realistic people. Once you get that old, family and medical staff need to start letting you go...make it comfortable of course, but do not keep wasting time and resources on someone who can longer do anything (especially if they have Alzheimer's or such). That's one of the big reasons the healthcare field is in the shape that it's in right now....wasting to much money and effort on people who need to be let go. Period.

2. The facility's policy was to not give CPR regardless of circumstance, to any resident. Anyone living there or family that put someone there knows this up front and accepts that fact when using this facility. You can't expect an employee to do something that EVERYONE involved in the situation knows they can't do. Plus, if the nurse had given CPR, there would be a VERY HIGH chance of her being sued/fired for performing an action that is against the rules. I know some of you might find this hard to believe (you shouldn't), but every little thing that a healthcare worker does nowadays that is technically against the rules brings a very good chance of legal action. In this case, the nurse followed protocol and did nothing wrong. Sometimes, even though it seems terrible, the action that YOU might deem necessary is not what can or will be done. If people want their 90-year old demented grandmother resuscitated (stupid to do, really) then they shouldn't use facilities with policies like this one...plain and simple.

[Ryve]

I'd be flipping a crap if I knew someone could have saved my mother's life but didn't. Jeez.

Then do everyone a favour and shut your mouth. CPR is not a magical guaranteed life saver. There's every possibility that had the nurse performed CPR, the woman would still have died before the ambulance arrived.

Statistically it fails more than it succeeds, however obviously if you don't try, it certainly won't work.

[shise]

Sounds bad tbh, but I'd like to know the whole story.

[Flatspriest]

It's clearly stated by the news anchor in the video. Watch it.

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 05:37 PM ----------



Well, if people would bother to watch the video, it wouldn't be a mystery.

And those who report the news NEVER lie?