Verdict on Guild Wars 2's innovations

[Valeron]

Yeah I think those that are arguing against traits are mainly pve players. Not saying they couldn't be improved but there is a definitely a difference in playstyle depending on what traits you use.

[Fencers]

There are no PVP traits apart from PVE traits. So the system would have to be well designed regardless of mode. The "try to PVP" thing doesn't work as an argument because there is no separation.

Traits are designed the same regardless currently.

[Zilong]

I'm torn in this issue and I think I know why.

I think they have powerful (sometimes overly powerful) of an effect. But that synergy is quite.."in the shadows". And by that I mean, sure it has synergy but it's because it's very toned down. You can either make a bad build, a so-so build, a good build and an awesome one (for sake of argument) the first 3 don't have much difference between themselves (maybe survival but that's mainly you with movement/dodge too which is individual). And then we have the awesome build that kinda mixes the improbable together and something strange/nice comes up.

My point being the traits although not being bad (imo) it does not define or (adds) too much to the character gameplay. (At most allows some links between unlikely skills/uses/etc.) Gives a few quality of life stuff and boosts whatever you want to boost. Which is pretty good.

What I feel we need is actually something that helps/adds more with the gameplay. I think that's actually missing and traits would probably be a good way to start. Unless VERY specific (And mostly because of changes in weapon skills) the traits while helpful/good/etc they do not specialize us in a way we feel different enough. And I bolded that because it's important that I feel like class-wise I'm different than others enough that I'm happy, but as for diferences in the same I feel usually turned off. The really functional builds are set (with of course many room to situational skills and all but still) and there is nothing being done to help the other ones. Anyhow, I would very much like Anet to empower/change around some weapons skills. And make the traits a little bit more interesting for ROLE choices..so we can actually grab this and that because it's going to make a hell of a difference, and then some that is for show. Let people really be supportive/healing if they like to be (I still think that the idea that some spells couldn't be cast on targets were a bit too much).

Anyhow. I see both sides...I think the trait system is very "open" to any crazy stuff and that's cool, but other than that I don't think I could call a big difference in playstyle.

[Valeron]

There are no PVP traits apart from PVE traits. So the system would have to be well designed regardless of mode. The "try to PVP" thing doesn't work as an argument because there is no separation.

Traits are designed the same regardless currently.

right though pve is so easy that the traits don't matter, you can win regardless of how you spec your character

in pvp (not talking about the WvW zerg type stuff) it can mostly definitely make a difference in how you play. Also whoever said it above that it doesn't exist in a vacuum is exactly right, you have take everything into account, your gear, weapon, utility skills, and traits. All of that defines on how you play it. If nothing has synergy, then you are in for a much rougher ride than those who who have everything in sync.

[Fencers]

right though pve is so easy that the traits don't matter, you can win regardless of how you spec your character

Then it's just bad game design.

[Lane]

Well, here's my latest gripe: Disconnects. GW2 is terrible at handling disconnects. First, it takes forever for the client to realize you've been d/ced and it usually decides to give you an error message right about the time your connection comes back. Secondly, there are 2-3 different screens of error messages you have to click through and even then it won't actually take you back to the login screen, the whole application just dies. You have to force close and restart it every time. Oh, and here's hoping you weren't actually in the middle of an event because your progress won't be saved (yet another one of the great things about Rift). I lost out on Shatterer's chest earlier today because of that. >

Granted, I wouldn't have this issue if my net provider didn't suck, but GW2's application could also handle d/cs a lot better too.

[greysaber]

Well, here's my latest gripe: Disconnects. GW2 is terrible at handling disconnects. First, it takes forever for the client to realize you've been d/ced and it usually decides to give you an error message right about the time your connection comes back. Secondly, there are 2-3 different screens of error messages you have to click through and even then it won't actually take you back to the login screen, the whole application just dies. You have to force close and restart it every time. Oh, and here's hoping you weren't actually in the middle of an event because your progress won't be saved (yet another one of the great things about Rift). I lost out on Shatterer's chest earlier today because of that. >

Granted, I wouldn't have this issue if my net provider didn't suck, but GW2's application could also handle d/cs a lot better too.

Sounds to me like you need a different ISP. I have never once been disconnected and always have excellent pings; and my ISP isn't close to highly regarded.

[Karizee]

Sounds to me like you need a different ISP. I have never once been disconnected and always have excellent pings; and my ISP isn't close to highly regarded.

Same here, I think I've only dc'd maybe twice since the game launched. What does this have to do with GW2's innovations again?

[Lane]

*shrugs* Same ISP I've been using since 2010. Had the same issue playing other MMOs, but their clients handle d/cs MUCH better. Plus, as I said, Rift actually saved your progress in an event up to a certain point, so most of the time I was usually able to log back in and get credit, which doesn't happen in GW2, so there's your lack of innovation. :P Just because it's a minority problem doesn't mean it doesn't suck or that other games didn't do it better.

[Fencers]

Plus, as I said, Rift actually saved your progress in an event up to a certain point, so most of the time I was usually able to log back in and get credit, which doesn't happen in GW2, so there's your lack of innovation.

Heh. Was just doing my carnival dailies in Rift actually and the alert message popped up for an event in Steppes of Infinity. Couldn't help but wish Guild Wars 2 had a similar alert system for DE or meta events.

I really enjoy doing the DEs, but finding them is extremely tedious. Friday I was wandering around Sparkfly for like an hour and ran into 1 event. Not common I go a play session without finding an event either.

Even if GW2 had some system where an alert was merely local to the map instead of worldwide like Rift. That would be useful.

Instant Adventures in Guild Wars 2 would be too wonderful for words.

Would be nice if GW2 had a way of getting players into DEs more efficiently. Basically.

[Valeron]

I disagree with that Fencers. Now I know you are all about gameplay and don't really care about immersive in the world but that is really the issue here, convenience versus the world. I understand your frustration with not finding DE's (and it always seems to be like this when you are actively searching for them, they never appear) but it diminishes the world when you add conveniences like that.

[Lane]

Instant Adventures in Guild Wars 2 would be too wonderful for words.

Instant Adventures would be a brilliant idea for GW2 in terms of getting players out into lesser played zones.

I understand your frustration with not finding DE's (and it always seems to be like this when you are actively searching for them, they never appear) but it diminishes the world when you add conveniences like that.

I don't know. I think my world is already diminished with map chat. :P "Any events?" "Troll." Etc. Besides, if you were able to toggle viewing zone events on your map then it wouldn't matter. If you don't want to know where events are then toggle it off.

However, for meta events we've seen how much of a problem Dragon Timers has been. Even without guesting, you'd still probably run into overflows, especially considering not everyone is aware of/uses the timers, but they would be if it were implemented in game. (Though that's really more of an issue with event rewards than actual interest in doing the events.)

[Fencers]

Could add an option to turn it off if you like- just like Rift offers.

[Deleted]

There are no PVP traits apart from PVE traits. So the system would have to be well designed regardless of mode. The "try to PVP" thing doesn't work as an argument because there is no separation.

Traits are designed the same regardless currently.

It most certainly works as an argument if to counter the claim that traits make barely any diffrence, you'd be totally raped in spvp with 0 traits.

[Fencers]

It most certainly works as an argument if to counter the claim that traits make barely any diffrence, you'd be totally raped in spvp with 0 traits.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20471381

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20471381

That's not really an anwser to what I said or atleast it doesn't make much sense.

[Svifnymr]

Sounds to me like you need a different ISP. I have never once been disconnected and always have excellent pings; and my ISP isn't close to highly regarded.

He knows that connection issues are his ISP, I've had a few dc's, but not a lot. (one a week at most)

But the game handles it stupidly. Ignoring how long it may take to recognize, it pops up a prompt saying you're disconnected and once you go through the prompts, it exits out of the game client and you need to start it over, log in and connect.

I can understand dropping back to login or something, but entirely closing the client seems stupid.

[Fencers]

That's not really an anwser to what I said or atleast it doesn't make much sense.

If traits are trivial in one mode of the game but not the other yet there is no distinction between two modes for the same traits; that is just bad game design.

[Deleted]

If traits are trivial in one mode of the game but not the other yet there is no distinction between two modes for the same traits; that is just bad game design.

Yes, but are they trivial in one mode of the game? you're obviously meaning pve here and while I'd agree it doesn't have the same impact on your success as in pvp I wouldn't go as far as to call it trivial, or to go back to the previous statement that it barely makes any diffrence, win or lose I disagree with that.

[Zilong]

Traits have (overly)particular working traits.
Also have boring traits
We have useless traits


Somewhere in there we have fun ones too.
I wouldn't mind if the Traits were focused in skills/utilities (or passive stuff). But the moment it starts messing with % less CD for a weapon...THAT's bad design (for me of course).
Mesmer trait: Increase armor while casting mantras. I bet you, you are not a mantra mesmer. But even if you were I'm positive you wouldn't get this.
Mesmer trait: Staff grants toughness +20% less CD on staff. If you don't use staff or the other 4 weapons for your class because you like Greatsword...that's like at least 5 traits I WONT be picking, right off the bat.

I could go on forever...The bouncing trait for mesmers is extremely good (I like it). Doesn't add any different gameplay but I love it on my Staff Support Mesmer. But yet again another trait that is attached to a weapon (This is a working trait example XD) but it still come with "big" restrictions.

So my point is:
I think it's a pretty big help on the game. It's certainly not needed (yet who would be this dumb) in pve. But it's somewhat a restrictive system....

EDIT: That goes the same for pretty much everything (was just playing)
My Ranger if I want to be a trapper. I choose traps as my utilities and search for traits that helps me do it.
The 2 that are really helpful is the 2x larger area (making them target) and the 2x condition duration (which comes with less CD).
I think that we could have traps being good on it's own. Because the only reason I would get those it would prob be IF I WERE a ranger trapper. Which if I am Ill probably get it.

My edited point: It would be better if the game provided some sort of "rune system" we see on d3(just an example). Where choices are less than "You either don't take damage falling or you have a chance to bleed on crit" kinda choices.