How the hell will the orcs redeem themselves when all this is done?

[Faroth]

We dont need redemption. Our leader just went full retard.

You never go full retard, man.

[Trassk]

The problem I have with the current story isn't so much about the orcs second 'fall from grace' arch, its more how they went about it in regards to the alliance.

Try, for a moment, if you have the capacity to do so, to think outside the box and look at the way things have played out, as opposed to how it was promised.

Metzen said, though mists WAR would be the real threat in this expansion, indicating that the conflict between horde and alliance would erupt and cause chaos across pandaria and beyond. We were lead to believe that both sides would be at blind sided aggression to the other, well the happy pandaren try and convince us the error of our ways and enlighten us.

On paper, it sounded great, it made it seem like they actually wanted to bring down the horde and alliance conflict to what it really all boiled down to, and how there was a means to resolving it.

however, what came about wasn't the case. Instead what we got given ingame, was having all the blame placed upon Garrosh and the orcs, having the alliance wash there hands of it accounting for no responsibility for anything, and not even having any questionable motivation in the alliances story arch. The hordes story comes down to the inner conflict with itself, well the alliance just don't have anything of that nature. They have nothing really to showcase the alliance doing anything wrong, simply because they can blame everything on the horde.

There is no moral lesson taught here, the alliance won't ever feel like there faction did anything wrong, because they will always find a scapegoat in the horde. And the horde will find a scapegoat in garrosh.

So, the alliance had nothing to stand accountable for anything that happened in mists, despite it was meant to be a story about the consequences of war, where as the horde gets those consequences thrown at them, and now having to fight against the apparent cause of it all, its corrupt leader.

So, the orcs fall from grace, feels like nothing more then a scapegoat to pad out elements in a story that lost direction the moment act 1 ended.

[Ielenia]

so Garrosh does some bad things like bomb theremore, kill some ally and then kills some trolls (maybe i mean besides that dude in org who says Vol'jins alive has any other troll actually died?) and you blame ALL ORCS? so how did humans get Redeemed after Arthas? funny how you Alliance forget you had Arthas all these years killing EVERYONE, but the moment 1 orc goes mad and starts a cult ALL orcs are to be blamed. . .lol. . .

Helps if you read his whole post. Helps a lot. Also, the Garrosh is not just 'one orc'. He's the LEADER of the orcs. Plus, a lot of orcs are on board with Garrosh's actions, either because they like what he's doing, or because they're honorbound to follow his orders. Not all the orcs, but a sizeable chunk of the orcs are on Garrosh's side. Otherwise he wouldn't have an army to do the stuff he's doing at the moment.

[Dreknar20]

On paper, it sounded great, it made it seem like they actually wanted to bring down the horde and alliance conflict to what it really all boiled down to, and how there was a means to resolving it. .

Likewise for an x-pac apprantly about the Horde/Alliance war reaching fever-pitch
Horde players spend more time killing fellow Horde than they do killing Alliance

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 12:53 AM ----------

So, the alliance had nothing to stand accountable for anything that happened in mistsd.

Id say the Purge of Dalaran and certain things in Jade Forest are examples of "shady" Alliance activity

Though you are right in the sense that all of those pale in scale compared to whats happening to the Horde now

[Trassk]

Likewise for an x-pac apprantly about the Horde/Alliance war reaching fever-pitch
Horde players spend more time killing fellow Horde than they do killing Alliance

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 12:53 AM ----------


Id say the Purge of Dalaran and certain things in Jade Forest are examples of "shady" Alliance activity

Though you are right in the sense that all of those pale in scale compared to whats happening to the Horde now

of course it pales in comparison. I've played both sides this expansion, and anything you might consider somewhat wrong or grey on the alliance side, is completely overshadowed by anything the horde does, so the alliance would easily be able to jump on this plot device and blame all there unhappiness on the horde.

There is no balance in this, alliance simply cannot do any wrong, even when they try, there is always something the horde does worse, and has to resolve. And for an expact where you actually expected there to be dark tidings and resolutions, they failed to make a balance argument between them. Made even more so by having the final boss of the expansion that of the hordes warchief now a corrupt character, so anything the alliance has done, they can snap there fingers and say "Garrosh did it".

For once I was dearly hoping to see the alliance do something wrong and actually have to redeem themselves for it. Instead, the only bad things they do comes in the form of the purge of dalaran, and there is no resolve from that, and it still pales when you consider what garrosh has done.

[Feral Camel]

I don't think the Orcs will need to redeems themselves. I've got a bit of a feeling the Alliance will take a cheap shot at the Horde during the SoO. Seizing an opportunity but having it backfire on them.

[Dreknar20]

. I've got a bit of a feeling the Alliance will take a cheap shot at the Horde during the SoO. Seizing an opportunity but having it backfire on them.

Maybe. Varian is a lot more level headed than he used to be.
But people like Admiral Rogers make consider this an oppurtunity to wipe out all of the Horde once and for all

[Tribunal]

Were all white male Germans Hitler? No? Not all Orcs are Garrosh.

Those who served in the corruption will be outcast or killed, those who didn't will either use the "just following orders" semi-cop or have legitimately been helping Vol'Jin/resisting Garrosh (the last one especially applies for player characters).

[Mormolyce]

I don't see why this would make Orcs more hated given that the rebel faction (which is the player faction and post-MoP will be the main Orc faction again) will be working alongside every other race in the game to bring down Garrosh for his crimes. Shouldn't that make them less hated than ever?

They're probably going to be almost universally mistrusted by every other race.

You mean like the Forsaken?

[Trassk]

I don't see why this would make Orcs more hated given that the rebel faction (which is the player faction and post-MoP will be the main Orc faction again) will be working alongside every other race in the game to bring down Garrosh for his crimes. Shouldn't that make them less hated than ever?



You mean like the Forsaken?

the problem is, blizzard has done nothing to show actual rebel orc characters not sided with Garrosh and fighting against the kor'kohn. The only orcs associated with the rebellion ARE the players characters, which doesn't account for anything lorewise since your character could be whatever race.

I'm disappointed, though seeing Thrall fighting against the kor'kohn is great, I hoped to see more orcs fed up with Garrosh's rule (the older orcs maybe, like that old farseer outside the gates of orgrimmar in the hut) or Gorgonna.

[Treesus]

Didn't the night elves desire for more arcane power start this whole mess on azeroth, when are they going to redeem themselves.

[Haven]

Well, pmuch every war the US has been in since WW2...

Quite the contrary, it's every war except those started by the US.

[Seezer]

This basically. Blizz has been careful to make sure all of Garrosh's evil cronies have come under the label of ''Kor'kron'' as well. (Kor'kron Dire Soldier, Kor'kron Dark Shaman etc)

Garrosh dead, corrupt Kor'kron wiped out. Horde is happy.

I won't be happy. I want the Kor'kron and Garrosh to stay with the horde.

[Dreknar20]

Well, pmuch every war the US has been in since WW2...

now im even more confused

Either way theres a lot of stuff in international law and Geneva COncention and what not that I see as bullshit

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 01:48 AM ----------

I won't be happy. I want the Kor'kron and Garrosh to stay with the horde.

those Kor'kron tabards are pretty god dam awsome

[Mormolyce]

the problem is, blizzard has done nothing to show actual rebel orc characters not sided with Garrosh and fighting against the kor'kohn. The only orcs associated with the rebellion ARE the players characters, which doesn't account for anything lorewise since your character could be whatever race.

I'm disappointed, though seeing Thrall fighting against the kor'kohn is great, I hoped to see more orcs fed up with Garrosh's rule (the older orcs maybe, like that old farseer outside the gates of orgrimmar in the hut) or Gorgonna.

That's what Thrall said he was riding to Orgrimmar to find, and I'm sure we will see the outcome of that next patch.

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 01:50 AM ----------

I won't be happy. I want the Kor'kron and Garrosh to stay with the horde.

I want those fuckers out of Undercity and my Abomination guards back. Call my Queen a bitch will you!?

FOR THE DARK LADY!

[Deleted]

The universal get out clause for low ranking officers and foot soldier's "we were following orders"

only orc that need to "redeem" themselves is Garosh, and he can do that by mounting his head at the front of Stormwind or Orgrimmar gates, Onyxia / Neferian Style.

[Zulkhan]

For once I was dearly hoping to see the alliance do something wrong and actually have to redeem themselves for it. Instead, the only bad things they do comes in the form of the purge of dalaran, and there is no resolve from that, and it still pales when you consider what garrosh has done.

Well, problem is that while the Alliance did essentially nothing in the "morally questionable" sphere in this expansion, if you think about it for a moment, from WC3 to Cataclysm, the Alliance has always been the faction that gave birth to a considerable amount of villains. Yeah, not questionable characters, villains; so is understandable that the story wanted to bring some "evil" (not even true evil, compared to the Alliance villains) erupting from the Horde, what make it so hard to digest yet is the fact that this storyline evolved entirely in WoW, no hooks with the RTS, plus Garrosh was not the type of character with instant-clear villany, he followed a descending path, sadly with the rest of the Horde following the falling.

Still i perfectly understand your point, but for me the main problems were all those promises of more Horde vs Alliance conflict, hinted that until Garrosh didn't turn in something really horrible, there would have been a lot of conflict in which both sides were in open war, no good or bad sides, just the cruel reality of war. But i knew that were promises very hard to honour when you know from the beginning that the last patch of the expansion will be the "Siege of Orgrimmar", in which Horde and Alliance unite against Garrosh....and in fact, after the arrival in Pandaria in which there were some questionable actions by both sides, all went completely into a sinkhole, we haven't seen war again until the 5.1, and in this we just have Garrosh be the bulding-up villain doing reckless and questionable, even irritating, things, and the Alliance chosing to "right thing to do" and become the good guys.

And now, we are, instead, nothing more than rebels forced to kill our own and looks like traitors, in good faith, but still traitors, with the Alliance following their path of "justness".

Yeah, is awful.

[Dreknar20]

And now, we are, instead, nothing more than rebels forced to kill our own and looks like traitors, in good faith, but still traitors, with the Alliance following their path of "justness". .

Gonna be a bit painful for the rest of this x-pac least for me.
Our enemies our not some foriegn enemy but our very own people, the same people we have fought and bled aside with in campaigns across Azeroth

[Deleted]

The Orcs have yet to truly even redeem themselves for the crimes the committed against humanity in the First and Second wars.

[Dreknar20]

, from WC3 to Cataclysm, the Alliance has always been the faction that gave birth to a considerable amount of villains.

wouldnt say most or all. The Lich King originated from an Orc. Kael could be considered part of the Horde in a way.