Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Grizelda]

Oh hells yes I am in agreement with you

[Szarala]

annnndddd not many players could do it, doesnt mean it had to be removed as a result, dont you see the issue with that, i cant do it, so please remove it?

Well, this is one of the few things they're actually consistent with. They're fine with out-of-intent play resulting in nominal performance increase, but not with significant increase.

Do you not see the overall problem if there is a big output difference between the "normal" players and the Super Elite Master Race players?

[Grizelda]

Because using a targeting reticule while moving is super op skill? The one thing they seem consistent about is their inconsistency.

[Deleted]

i actually dont care for the difference, theres always been a difference regardless between those class of players this doesnt change that, the ROF ember generation allowed for different play styles to be used, and thats being gutted due to people whinging they cant use it, not even talking about dps increase here, theres nothing wrong with doing the exceptional in a given encounter, i dont know why people who can do things time to time above the average player need to get punished for it, just dont use it, theres other specs to play if you cant manage it, thats the bloody advantage of playing a bloody lock

[vaeevictiss]

Blizzard.

Change KJC to make fillers castable while moving.
Keep MF as it is.
Buff/redesign AV.

Problem solved without changing fundamental Warlock mechanics. God damn it, stop changing mechanics. Fel Flame was so nice for questing as well...

how about just god damn get rid of AV and give us something nice. They give us a level 90 talent, that only does something, when we do what we as dps make every effort not to...take damage.

[Gorthan]

Apparently you can't think out of numbers. 100k, 150k, 200k, 250k, 10000000000000k.

Lol. It's a lost cause.

MOvement, which is the ONE and TRUE challenge to ranged dps, is dumbed down by KJC (no, snare is only an issue if you are stupid). Therefore KJC is OP.

It's a challange for every class. Not only for warlock, not only for ranged.

KJC did not trivialized it, it makes it harder 'cause you have to think how to move. Without the ability to cast while moving you just move, stop and cast. What's the skill in it? It's a lot harder to output a good dps while moving rather than do it standing still.

I don't see any raeason to call KJC OP, pve speaking, other than "i dond't have so it's OP".

[Hurtlocker]

A big part of the changes are in line with keeping Blizz's original thought process about talents being preference over players feeling like they have to take a specific talent. GoSac got nerfed because it became a must have for some specs over the others. I was mainly demo through t14 due to movement (before KJC became what it is currently) and tried all 3 specs in ToT. The talent as is does improve the quality of life knowing that you can move anytime you want with only a snare penalty, and the snare is not even a problem (unless you take the outermost maze on Dormru with no other movement enhancing abilities) on most fights in ToT. It's still early in the PTR so have to see how it will all shape up. It is tough getting used to something and having it taken away, but I guess that's WoW.

[Grizelda]

I don't understand why there is a problem with there being a right and wrong talent for the job.

Here's a bag of tools. Go fix that sink.
Choose a wrench? Good job.
Choose a saw? Noob, L2P.

[Teye]

Fel Flame is now Scorch 2.0 and Affliction getting damage moved from MG to Haunt and DoTs. MF increasing AoE damage by 100% for the duration. I don't even know.

[Szarala]

I don't understand why there is a problem with there being a right and wrong talent for the job.

Here's a bag of tools. Go fix that sink.
Choose a wrench? Good job.
Choose a saw? Noob, L2P.

..because then you don't even have the illusion of choice and the only thing separating Warlock A from Warlock B is the color of their hat.

[Grizelda]

Or their skill in studying the situation and choosing the right tool.


Thats how I saw a majority of our talents when they hit.

Oh look pets can be a bitch sometimes...GoSac
There they need more burst...GoServ

On this fight they need sustained damage mitigation...Soul Leech. Have to keep that shield up.
There they need spike damage mitigation....Dark Regen. Have to have that CD ready.

Now if they were able to give talents that were situational and add in various flavor that's cool (I assumed that is what glyphs were for) But lets at least not forget why they thought to give us a particular talent in the first place. There was a need to do X job. The reason we take Y talent a lot is because X job keeps popping up.

Want us to use AV more? Give us a reason. By which I do not mean ruin KJC or MF.

[Deleted]

If Felflame consumes backdraft, then i'll be happy.

[Szarala]

Or their skill in studying the situation and choosing the right tool.

..then we're right back to there being "right answers" which was their whole -stated- reason for switching from the old talent tree system to begin with.

Maybe I'm too sentimental or put too much emphasis on the "rp" part of mmorpg, but the way talents are now, and the direction they seem to be headed, it's like they've replaced my character sheet with a short series of dials with three settings each.

That's not cool to me.

[Rustjive]

Keldion's suggestion is the best so far (Fel Flame, no DoT refresh, causes MG-esque tick). It doesn't even need to be a glyph, and it doesn't need the damage reduced, as it can be tuned easily to not feature in the ST rotation. You can even co-opt most of Drain Soul's behavior into it. I really don't see the downside, other than it not being 'elegant' (as FF would need to have drastically different implementations for all 3 specs), and it's surprising to me that Blizzard didn't explore that idea first. The current iteration of both FF and MF are just awful.

[Deleted]

If Felflame consumes backdraft, then i'll be happy.

with a base cast of 1.5 sec i don't really see the point of that with the amount of haste ppl will run around with (not to mention meta procs etc)

EDIT: in fact, in destro , FF should GRANT you a backdraft stack to tighten the gap in dps between standing still & running around (obviously still capping at 6)

[Szarala]

Keldion's suggestion is the best so far (Fel Flame, no DoT refresh, causes MG-esque tick). It doesn't even need to be a glyph, and it doesn't need the damage reduced, as it can be tuned easily to not feature in the ST rotation. You can even co-opt most of Drain Soul's behavior into it. I really don't see the downside, other than it not being 'elegant' (as FF would need to have drastically different implementations for all 3 specs), and it's surprising to me that Blizzard didn't explore that idea first. The current iteration of both FF and MF are just awful.

better idea imo... leave Fel Flame alone, bring back Searing Pain and have THAT be the castable-on-the move spell that either causes a dot tick (this gets messy between the three specs) or has a damage multiplier based on active DoTs (slightly less messy).

[Zathrendar]

It's a challange for every class. Not only for warlock, not only for ranged.

KJC did not trivialized it, it makes it harder 'cause you have to think how to move. Without the ability to cast while moving you just move, stop and cast. What's the skill in it? It's a lot harder to output a good dps while moving rather than do it standing still.

I don't see any raeason to call KJC OP, pve speaking, other than "i dond't have so it's OP".

People try to artificially exaggerate the challenge things like movement pose. I agree with you that it doesn't trivialise movement or constitute an "OP" talent in any way, shape or form. Blizzard is hell bent on reforming it, though, so at least they can make fillers castable on move, and offer something less ridiculous than the changes they've brought to the table.

I for one fail to see why the only challenge in raids should be movement, or why, for instance, this is not an issue with hunters, but is with warlocks, when hunters also rely disproportionately more on instants.

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 05:28 PM ----------

..then we're right back to there being "right answers" which was their whole -stated- reason for switching from the old talent tree system to begin with.

Maybe I'm too sentimental or put too much emphasis on the "rp" part of mmorpg, but the way talents are now, and the direction they seem to be headed, it's like they've replaced my character sheet with a short series of dials with three settings each.

That's not cool to me.

Yes, here's hoping future MMOs deviate from this a little. Or a lot. Then again, I couldn't give a toss about choice in level 90s. One useful level 90 is better than three equally bad gimmicks, i.e. the mage predicament.

[Uzkin]

The current Fel Flame (instant cast, refreshes dots) does have many uses, including PvP, soloing, refreshing dots with higher power in some cases, etc. These uses just don't include using it as affliction's mobile filler. Giving FF a cast time and damage buff, and removing its ability to refresh dots will make it useful for PvE affliction as a filler while moving, but at the same time it will break all the current uses of the spell. In my opinion, this proposed change to FF might cause as much harm as it does good. Help PvE affli, sure, but hinder everything else.

Szarala's suggestion of bringing back Searing Pain as "Scorch" could work, then Fel Flame could stay as it is.

[jackvii]

The current Fel Flame (instant cast, refreshes dots) does have many uses, including PvP, soloing, refreshing dots with higher power in some cases, etc.

Backending Fel Flame to a filler for burst not withstanding, it's also the spell of choice for severe cast time debuffs.

It's really an indefensibly hindering change.

[Lucidious]

Making fel flame castable while moving and buffing dot damage is gonna be just fine for affliction PvP. But last I checked we had 2 other specs and as of now they will actually be hindered by these changes. Fel flame should just stay as is imo. And has anyone read GC's Twitter about soul link going back to its old effect? Cause that's a change I'd be good with.