Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

[Osmeric]

and thats bad why?

It's more pointless than bad. It's not something you're going to get, at least for long, since it would make no sense to provide it.

If you're going to be asking for pointless things, ask for something valuable, like "Blizzard, please send me a million dollars".

You do realize people do like standing out from the pack, to be different from the average, or just plain be better than others

You do realize that, by mathematical definition, almost everyone will fail to achieve that goal, right? The game design you are talking about is inherently self-demolishing. It's like a Ponzi scheme.

[melodramocracy]

Because "being unique" (except in some combinatorial sense) cannot be the value proposition of a game. By inexorable logic, it's a reward that can only be delivered to very few people.

It's not "the" value proposition, it's "a" value proposition. Not everyone playing this game aspires to conquer all aspects of it. It's never been the case, and never will be.

And most of what is being discussed isn't actually truly exclusive content anyhow. Acquiring a TLPD on a crowded server is probably more of an exclusive task than a Ra-den kill, for example.

[Deleted]

I do very much enjoy this cute sentiment that "ZOMG you dont like LFR? you must be some douchie elitist meaniehead who doesn't want me to have fun and now I'm gonna say mean things to you and tell you to get over it LOL cuz Blizz says I'm right by how they are choosing to design the game, HUMPH!" A rather defensive reply from people who rely solely on LFR to "raid". Its just interesting to see the answers as to why WoW subs are bleeding out faster than background actors in a WWII movie. It couldn't possibly be from the change in Blizz's developmental philosophy could it? Why no, Blizz has given me LFR and mad the game far easier and simpler. This is what I;ve always wanted and must be what is best for the game, especially since Blizz is always right about thse sorts of things. Clearly since more people play now than ever...oh wait...

Yup. There is no reasoning with these kind of people.

[Dreknar20]

You do realize that, by mathematical definition, almost everyone will fail to achieve that goal, right?

well yeah, there have to be plenty of herp derp players to make awsome players stand out.
Not everyone can or should be able to reach that level, or it defeats the whole purpose/point of being unique.

If everything you could accomplish in game was also easily accomplished by everyone else then whats the fucking point?
There would be nothing awsome, nothing that makes you feel like a badass, basically nothing

This isnt a single player game, its an mmo, ones own feats are always compared against others.

[Osmeric]

well yeah, there have to be plenty of herp derp players to make awsome players stand out.
Not everyone can or should be able to reach that level, or it defeats the whole purpose/point of being unique.

Just like a Ponzi scheme, this needs a flow of suckers to keep the egoboost flowing. Once that supply runs out, the whole thing collapses.

You're asking for something that cannot be the basis for the game. Maybe you can get some side content that most people will ignore, but the main end game -- which is raiding -- cannot be designed to that philosophy and be a sustained success.

[Dreknar20]

You're asking for something that cannot be the basis for the game. Maybe you can get some side content that most people will ignore, but the main end game -- which is raiding -- cannot be designed to that philosophy and be a sustained success.

yet parts of them are, aka Heroic raiding

[Osmeric]

yet parts of them are, aka Heroic raiding

What part of "side content that most of them will ignore" did you not understand?

[nekobaka]

I don't actually know if flex raids will solve all that many problems. For people that have a bunch of friends, in a large enough diversity of roles, but are for some reason not in a raiding guild, then it'll give them something more organized than LFR to do. But the large majority of people who run LFR will likely remain dependent upon LFR for gear and content, unless PuGing suddenly becomes a huge thing with flex raids

These players will remain dependent on LFR for gear as long as LFR remains the top dog for gear progression outside of flex/normal/heroic raids. As of right now those who do dailies and want to spend their VP points have to grind reputation in LFR. If they want to progress then they have to do LFR regardless of enjoying it or not. GC has said it that the majority in LFR are not interested in raiding and others have said it that if it wasnt for the gear they would not be in LFR. Just shows that if Blizzard provided an alternative that players have more interest in then they would leave LFR.

[namelessone]

These players will remain dependent on LFR for gear as long as LFR remains the top dog for gear progression outside of flex/normal/heroic raids. As of right now those who do dailies and want to spend their VP points have to grind reputation in LFR. If they want to progress then they have to do LFR regardless of enjoying it or not. GC has said it that the majority in LFR are not interested in raiding and others have said it that if it wasnt for the gear they would not be in LFR. Just shows that if Blizzard provided an alternative that players have more interest in then they would leave LFR.

In a sense you are right, Blizzard made LFR to keep busy all the people who are not interested in raiding (majority of subscribers). I suspect it's because it was easier to make a lower difficulty raid than to come up with unique non-raid content to keep non-raiders occupied. So in the end, it seems like LFR exists because Blizzard has no idea what to do with non-raiders.

[Glorious Leader]

Let's say one day your child or a child that you are guardian for or hell even just related to gets a new toy. He got it because well he was a good little boy or girl and did his chores and so forth. He goes outside to play with that toy. He sees the neighbors kid has a similar or even exact same toy. He comes back inside the house, smashes the toy on the floor and throws a fit because he's enjoyment has been diminished by the fact that the neighbors kid has a similar or exact same toy. How would you handle this behavior as a parent and or guardian? Would you condone it? Would you reinforce it?

The reality is that people calling for more exclusive content are very much the spoiled children who derive their amusement from denying others access to the same things. They are the eric cartmans of the world denying kyle broflovski the toy, in fact they insist that kyle must stare around in awe while they strut their stuff (as if anyone ever remotely gave a flying fuck). They may attempt to couch and frame this behaviour using phrasing and terminologies that would lead you to believe their interests were entirely about the game but you needn't think that the case.

[nekobaka]

Let's say one day your child or a child that you are guardian for or hell even just related to gets a new toy. He got it because well he was a good little boy or girl and did his chores and so forth. He goes outside to play with that toy. He sees the neighbors kid has a similar or even exact same toy. He comes back inside the house, smashes the toy on the floor and throws a fit because he's enjoyment has been diminished by the fact that the neighbors kid has a similar or exact same toy. How would you handle this behavior as a parent and or guardian? Would you condone it? Would you reinforce it?

The game is the toy, both have the same game. No one gets a special version with exclusive content. There will be children who get more out of a toy than others, doesnt mean it is exclusive.

[Glorious Leader]

The game is the toy, both have the same game. No one gets a special version with exclusive content. There will be children who get more out of a toy than others, doesnt mean it is exclusive.

Apparently not if you believe advocates for "exclusive" content then the game itself isn't the toy.

[Brodeo]

i still dont understand why everyone thinks LFR exists in a vacuum. there are literally TONS of other variables that it impacts and to ignore them is so incredibly short-sighted. if you want to argue that the ends justify the means, then go ahead. but dont pretend to ignore the ramifications.

also, with the shitty toy analogy, its more akin to being rewarded with a toy for getting straight A's, then your shitty sibling with Fs gets the same reward. Why did i bother getting A's?

[Deleted]

Depends on who you call leet. Top raiders sure don't make posts like this. But on this very forum, you have quite a few vocal posts against LFR.

There is a MASSIVE difference between people who are against LFR and this myth that leets & pro-raiders are all against LFR.

The vocal opinions against LFR are from very diverse and different groups of Wow playerbase... its clueless people like u who are guilty of creating a total myth that the leets r against LFR beause they dont want everyone else to see the content.

I challenged u to find me ONE post from a pro-raider who is against LFR for this reason... FIND ME ONE.

[DeadmanWalking]

There is a MASSIVE difference between people who are against LFR and this myth that leets & pro-raiders are all against LFR.

The vocal opinions against LFR are from very diverse and different groups of Wow playerbase... its clueless people like u who are guilty of creating a total myth that the leets r against LFR beause they dont want everyone else to see the content.

I challenged u to find me ONE post from a pro-raider who is against LFR for this reason... FIND ME ONE.

Look Ende, I thought we already went over this. Just because people bitch about something does not mean it needs to be removed. Wowplayers bitch about everything and then bitch that they are not being listened to, which is false because we wouldn't have transmog/reforge/less daillies/easier ways to level alts in MoP if it wasnt for Blizzard listening.

Opinions against LFR are only Major here because the same 7 guys create all kinds of posts about them and then rehash the same complaint in every thread over and over again ad nausium.

I'll give you the facts. No LFR means that the largest majority of players who have no time for raiding guilds will have NOTHING TO DO. They will quit. Wow would loose less subscibers if they removed normal and heroic raiding than if they removed LFR. LFR isn't going anywhere.

Thats the facts, you can't run a game based on the needs of 1% of the playerbase. You are welcome to complain all that you want but it won't change the facts. And don't try and tell us that you are making an educated decision based on basic business principles because you don't have a degree in MMO social politics and you don't have any clue what makes an MMO work as a business.

No LFR=NO Raid content!

[Deleted]

@Deadman

I am not against LFR, why do u alwqys think i am?

I am for LFR, i just think it needs to have its position within the game amended.

I am sick of clueless idiots inventing myths which have become seen as fact on the forums.

This myth that all the leets r against LFR because they want to stop everyone else seeing the content is complete bullcrap. Ive never ever seen a single post from a pro-raider who doesnt like LFR for this reason.

[DeadmanWalking]

@Deadman

I am not against LFR, why do u alwqys think i am?

I am for LFR, i just think it needs to have its position within the game amended.

I am sick of clueless idiots inventing myths which have become seen as fact on the forums.

This myth that all the leets r against LFR because they want to stop everyone else seeing the content is complete bullcrap. Ive never ever seen a single post from a pro-raider who doesnt like LFR for this reason.

What universe do you live in? Seriously? Of course not all elite players are against LFR, the majority of them don't give two shits about LFR because they don't use it and they don't care what other people do. Those people also dont bitch on forums about things they are not against. Its like saying, "Who isn't in attendance? Come on, call out your name if your not here! Okay, guess we didn't loose anyone!"

Does that mean that no elite players are against LFR? Hell no, in fact if you open your eyes and actually read this entire thread you will find several people who will literally tell you that they are an elite player and they are against LFR. Wake up and smell the text.

They literally say in several points of this thread that they think LFR should be removed so that we all will be forced to join raiding guilds to see the content!!!!! Thats not a myth, its a fact!

[TheBigPapi]

Apparently not if you believe advocates for "exclusive" content then the game itself isn't the toy.

You have it backwards. If you want a toy analogy, both have the same bike. 1 practices and learns to ride the bike and enjoys it to the fullest. The other doesnt bother and wants all the work done for it. So it cries and cries and forces the parent to buy them a go kart, while going over and slashing the other kids tires. This analogy fits much better into the current situation.

[Glorious Leader]

also, with the shitty toy analogy, its more akin to being rewarded with a toy for getting straight A's, then your shitty sibling with Fs gets the same reward. Why did i bother getting A's?

The guy in lfr is not your sibling. He's a total and complete stranger to you. He's the kid across the street. He has a toy SIMILAR to yours and instead of valuing that toy that you profess to have "worked for" you run back inside and scream and holler that some random dude down the block has something SIMILAR (albeit shittier and weaker) then yours.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 02:20 AM ----------

You have it backwards. If you want a toy analogy, both have the same bike. 1 practices and learns to ride the bike and enjoys it to the fullest. The other doesnt bother and wants all the work done for it. So it cries and cries and forces the parent to buy them a go kart, while going over and slashing the other kids tires. This analogy fits much better into the current situation.

No you have it backwards. Both players are riding the bikes. Your just trying to tell the other kid he isn't "REALLY" riding the bike and he ought to not even try because his riding the bike is so shitty and his riding the bike just makes your riding the bike all the shittier.

What your talking about is so god damn off base with what happens in game, it's just convenient to your argument which amounts to little but patronage for the "casual" player. In essence you people are the eric cartmans of the world. The only value you that you get out of the game isn't accomplishing a task, the only value you get is accomplishing a task and having others stand around and sit in awe of you while you do it. The kid across the street playing happily with his toy (lfr) isn't the one fucking crying about his toy (lfr). It's YOU people throwing the fit. Get over yourselves. Stop deriving amusement at the expense of others. Grow up.

Exclusive content is TERRIBLE. It's terrible from an economic standpoint. It's terrible from a player standpoint. It rewards childish selfish and spoiled behaviour on the part of a minority of players who then defend this behavior by patronizing and chiding their fellow players. Calling them "entitled" and telling them they have to "work for it", when the reality is the notion of "work for it" is not only highly subjective (the "casual" player may have genuinely felt that he did work for it) it's really poor design criteria.

[Mormolyce]

Actually, modern bosses have the exact same mechanics vanilla bosses did. True story!

Only if you're willing to reduce every mechanic down to "kill X, dodge Y".

I remember reading that Golemagg in MC was originally supposed to have a mechanic where he threw things to his dogs and they ran and caught them, but they couldn't get the tech working. They later did in FL, which was a big homage to MC, and that's how Shannox works now. There are a lot of things they do in raids now you would never have seen in Vanilla. To say otherwise is just deliberate blindness.

And I'd love more instances like BRD. Content is so fucking dumbed down these days, I've just about given up on it. Didn't even check out heroic scenarios anymore. I'm drawing a line now, no point in getting disappointed everytime Blizzard thinks up a new niche to fill... :P

Dude you should play H Scens, they're fun.

Don't confuse making the game more convenient with dumbing it down. Would you like it if you queued for a heroic to get your VP and had to do all of BRD instead of a 10-minute MoP dungeon? Yikes.

I remember doing BRD before LFD as well... my god the pain... that wasn't hard or fun just incredibly frustrating. Having to spend forever finding pugs, riding to the dungeon, then riding back and doing it again because your healer DCed wasn't difficult, just bad. Not that the dungeon wasn't awesome, it's just that it was designed to suit a very different era.

If they made a BRD style dungeon - huge sprawling non-linear with lots of little weird things like the bar in it - they'd have to make it some kind of separate thing to the gearing up part of the game so that it would make sense in the modern world. Same story if they brought back "old AV" style BGs.

---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 02:26 AM ----------

i still dont understand why everyone thinks LFR exists in a vacuum. there are literally TONS of other variables that it impacts and to ignore them is so incredibly short-sighted. if you want to argue that the ends justify the means, then go ahead. but dont pretend to ignore the ramifications.

also, with the shitty toy analogy, its more akin to being rewarded with a toy for getting straight A's, then your shitty sibling with Fs gets the same reward. Why did i bother getting A's?

If you think the rewards of LFR and NM/HM raids are the same well... guess what? You're LFR's target market. Enjoy it.