PTR 5.4 Caster Trinkets first look.

[Deleted]

I did test a base 535 UVLS 2/2 upgraded and found it is close on its good pulls if not inferior (on its bad ones) to amp+crit trinket for a crit itemized demo. Its obviously stronger if you gear mastery/haste with UVLS/amp but a full crit demo setup was able to match or exceed that in terms of numbers with less RNG. Basically if you game your 2pc soulfire as your trigger to be in meta and save CD's for major dump times (when amp + crit proc) on a crit based setup you can beat ULVS. I am testing without the EA glyph since that is obviously going away in the future.

Same gear as armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Werst/simple just with the T16 5x set and the T16 trinkets. Granted I have a couple generic alts to provide all the gems/chants/etc for swapping back and forth repeatedly but its the same setup. Still running troll racial though orc might be closer without the 2 min UVLS super doom opener.

If I had to rank setups right now it might look like:

1. Crit > mast > haste setup demo with amp and crit trinkets.
2. Mast > haste > crit setup demo with amp and UVLS trinkets.
3. Aff with mast = haste > crit setup with amp and haste trinkets
4. Melee'ing the dummy with a fishing pole and safari hat
5. Destro with any combination of trinkets.

The first 3 are pretty close. I rated the non UVLS demo higher due to it being less subject to RNG and more subject to reactive skill though RNG on the 2pcT16 soulfire buff are still going to RNG you. Aff is really close and possibly stronger still but its hard to get a true test until demo gets its set bonus unbugged. I noticed I was getting 4pc procs in demo that seemed to be charging me DF and chaoswaving instead of casting HoG so that is why I would give the nod to demo > aff or at least call it equal. Aff is certainly an easier spec to play than high crit demo.

You could probably start out using a UVLS/amp haste/mastery setup as a companion spec to affliction. You are just married to UVLS and all its RNG for an indefinite basis. I would almost certainly go with a 2pc/2pc T16/T15H right now but again can't say for sure until the bugs are out.

i can definately see the heavy crit build for demo working properly but only if you have destro as offspec(which atm prolly isnt a viable choice with the state its in) the problem im having is that if you're using the heavy crit demo build then you're more or less pigeonholed into having destro and demo as your main specs, for some1 like me who is aff/demo it isnt really an option for me, so the UVLS is really the only option for me as demo if i dont want to nerf myself as afflic and unlike xyronic, i dont have an ilvl 549 UVLS, i only got a lowly ilvl 510 UVLS still coz it just doesnt want to drop for me on normal, once i get an ilvl 530/536 UVLS it should be enough to get rid of the worst RNG of it, as it should proc often enough to be able to keep 100% crit doom up without the EA glyph thanks to pandemic, provided my math is correct(should come down to about 85 secs between procs on average but you know how averages work with rppm trinks)

[Sifonology]

I'm referring to Berserking breakpoints, which noone else seems to track. I'm referring to the 12 tick per minute breakpoint, 17377, with Lust/metagem/berserking/raid haste. The breakpoint I used during progression was 12391, or 11 ticks per minute.

I didn't see that breakpoints because I'm a filthy Goblin. Everything you listed has only 1 chance to stack together in a fight and it is unlikely unless it's the pull. Going for one %30 haste proc plus Berserking might be a safer bet but haste isn't a bad stat for us anyway.

[Deleted]

I didn't see that breakpoints because I'm a filthy Goblin. Everything you listed has only 1 chance to stack together in a fight and it is unlikely unless it's the pull. Going for one %30 haste proc plus Berserking might be a safer bet but haste isn't a bad stat for us anyway.

I think in 5.4 it will turn out that we have more haste than needed no matter what. With hit beyond the cap and crit being far worse, all our gear should be having mastery + haste if you count reforged stats. So even going for maximum mastery, with a bit of 5.4 gear I think you will be over ~13300 haste anyway.

[Werst]

In my 552'ish ilvl setup on the PTR once I hitcapped I was around 5K haste with 36%'ish crit on the crit demo setup. I'm also not sold on sac being so great. At gear levels (upper 540's) not predicted in simC profiles you still see service coming out ahead of sac.

I am almost positive aff will stack haste/mastery indefinitely and even with minimal crit the UA crit tick based set bonus still will have a very high uptime. I tested yesterday (Monday) morning on PTR. I can't say for certain if the trinket changes to amp were in by then. Right now demo still has some set bonus bugs and destro is dead in the water. I almost want to hold any meaningful testing until we see another build and/or a fix to destro.

Also of note the complete lack of hit rating on any T16 pieces means we will likely be forging into it or at least can equip say a HTF wush without being way over cap. Until they sort out demo and the amp trinket a bit more clearly (aka debug) its hard not to plan on going aff for T16 early since its easily competitive, uses the haste/mastery itemization we are already setup with, and has its major weakness (aoe burst) fixed via MF seeds. That aff probably will be strongest with a hydra/wush early transitioning into a haste/stacking int + amp (or even keeping hydra awhile). Maybe a HTF UVLS since aff never used EA glyph?

[Deleted]

In my 552'ish ilvl setup on the PTR once I hitcapped I was around 5K haste with 36%'ish crit on the crit demo setup. I'm also not sold on sac being so great. At gear levels (upper 540's) not predicted in simC profiles you still see service coming out ahead of sac.

I am almost positive aff will stack haste/mastery indefinitely and even with minimal crit the UA crit tick based set bonus still will have a very high uptime. I tested yesterday (Monday) morning on PTR. I can't say for certain if the trinket changes to amp were in by then. Right now demo still has some set bonus bugs and destro is dead in the water. I almost want to hold any meaningful testing until we see another build and/or a fix to destro.

Also of note the complete lack of hit rating on any T16 pieces means we will likely be forging into it or at least can equip say a HTF wush without being way over cap. Until they sort out demo and the amp trinket a bit more clearly (aka debug) its hard not to plan on going aff for T16 early since its easily competitive, uses the haste/mastery itemization we are already setup with, and has its major weakness (aoe burst) fixed via MF seeds. That aff probably will be strongest with a hydra/wush early transitioning into a haste/stacking int + amp (or even keeping hydra awhile). Maybe a HTF UVLS since aff never used EA glyph?

well all they have really done is take the hit away from tier and added it to your non-tier pieces. with the way it is now you can can easily get 4700+ hitrating from your non-tier gear, so it isnt really a problem.

i agree, afflic does look very strong for progression, and they have more or less made the spec less dependent on multidotting by hardcasting or SB:SS through the new soul swap, so you can use almost all your soul shards on haunts which will give you an extremely high uptime on haunt and as you said there is only really 2 trinkets worth using and that is the amp trink and the stacking int trink. the only problem i can see with the stacking int trinket is that it might take too long to stack up to 10 stacks without using tools like fel flame or SB:SS(increases the stacks by 2 when using it) and i dont really know if it is worth doing this as it is a dps drop but it might be worth.

[Hellfury]

I dont recall if they changed but I remenber one of the set bonus having a 20% pet+owner damage modifier . Isn't sac gona lose on that portion of the proc atlest for demo?

I also dont think crit itemized demo will work that well for those with decent ilevel UVLS, and that again is based on the new set bonus, afaik they dont have ICDs so faster we cast more of them we can proc so haste will probably will become King of the Hill defeating mastery once and for all

[Brusalk]

I dont recall if they changed but I remenber one of the set bonus having a 20% pet+owner damage modifier . Isn't sac gona lose on that portion of the proc atlest for demo?

I also dont think crit itemized demo will work that well for those with decent ilevel UVLS, and that again is based on the new set bonus, afaik they dont have ICDs so faster we cast more of them we can proc so haste will probably will become King of the Hill defeating mastery once and for all

Sac is supposed to roughly compensate for the loss of a pet by buffing player damage. 20% pet + owner damage doesn't make that any worse than if you had a pet.

[Hellfury]

Sac is supposed to roughly compensate for the loss of a pet by buffing player damage. 20% pet + owner damage doesn't make that any worse than if you had a pet.

Ian genuinely not understanding, what u mean. Sac is only debatable better than service depending on fight

The set bonus reads (...)Soul Fire has a 20% chance to increase you and your pet's damage dealt by 20%.(...) So its 20% to us, 20% to the pet, like "40%" if u will, with Sac gives 20% to us, other 20% goes to nothing. Unless they made the set bonus interact diferent with sac and I wasnt aware of that.

[Deleted]

The set bonus reads (...)Soul Fire has a 20% chance to increase you and your pet's damage dealt by 20%.(...) So its 20% to us, 20% to the pet, like "40%" if u will, with Sac gives 20% to us, other 20% goes to nothing. Unless they made the set bonus interact diferent with sac and I wasnt aware of that.

But 20% of a Sac lock if greater than 20% of a normal lock. If the talents were balanced it should be around the same.

[Brusalk]

Ian genuinely not understanding.

The set bonus reads (...)Soul Fire has a 20% chance to increase you and your pet's damage dealt by 20%.(...) So its 20% to us, 20% to the pet, like "40%" if u will, with Sac gives 20% to us, other 20% goes to nothing. Unless they made the set bonus interact diferent with sac and I wasnt aware of that.

When running with a pet you will do X% of the total damage, and your pet will do Y%.

When running with Sac you will do roughly (X+Y)% of the total damage and your pet will do 0%.

.2*X + .2*Y == .2*(X+Y)


In certain cases you may do slightly more than (X+Y)% of the damage due to the fact that certain player sources are buffed and not others. In other cases you may do less. Generally speaking they're balanced so that it's not a significant difference between GoSac and GoPet.

[Hellfury]

ok good point totaly forgot about modifiers on top of GoSac modifiers.

I still think the set bonus is abit anti-GoSac because those 20% wont probably translate into Imps and that's the biggest appeal of GoSac, while with a pet those 20% go to a 100% source.

Not sure if Iam explaining my point clearly

[Brusalk]

ok good point totaly forgot about modifiers on top of GoSac modifiers.

I still think the set bonus is abit anti-GoSac because those 20% wont probably translate into Imps and that's the biggest appeal of GoSac, while with a pet those 20% go to a 100% source.

Not sure if Iam explaining my point clearly

I have no clue what your point is.

Being GoSac doesn't exclude Imps from benefiting from the pet bonus damage from the set bonus. (If that's what you mean) (If they even do benefit from the pet 20%)

[Woz]

Since it seems that it was missed they recently changed the Amplifier trinket (not sure exactly when but it was recently-ish) to be similar to the other ones.

14% passive Mastery/Crit/Haste with static Int on top of it. The trinket will still proc but it won't actually buff your stats, FWIW.

My guess is...definitely a work in progress.

[Deleted]

Since it seems that it was missed they recently changed the Amplifier trinket (not sure exactly when but it was recently-ish) to be similar to the other ones.
14% passive Mastery/Crit/Haste with static Int on top of it. The trinket will still proc but it won't actually buff your stats, FWIW.
My guess is...definitely a work in progress.

It was discussed in the previous pages

[Deleted]

Since it seems that it was missed they recently changed the Amplifier trinket (not sure exactly when but it was recently-ish) to be similar to the other ones.

14% passive Mastery/Crit/Haste with static Int on top of it. The trinket will still proc but it won't actually buff your stats, FWIW.

My guess is...definitely a work in progress.

Was stated a few pages back^

[Deleted]

A little bird told me they are testing PvP at the moment and have changed (nerfed) many trinkets, because they were so strong that they messed up the testing. There might yet be hope for our baby!

[Woz]

It was discussed in the previous pages

I looked back like 4 pages. Maybe I'm just blind. VERY POSSIBLE.

Either way. I don't keep up on these threads, obviously.

[Meleti]

I hope the Amp trinket stays nerfed, because it would be insane otherwise. I can't even imagine what it does to a mage with reasonable RNG.

[Xorn]

I have no clue what your point is.

Being GoSac doesn't exclude Imps from benefiting from the pet bonus damage from the set bonus. (If that's what you mean) (If they even do benefit from the pet 20%)

I think his point was that the set bonus may or may nor affect Wild Imp damage. If it does, then everything is fine. If it doesn't, then it's a bit of a shot to GoSac as most of the damage compensation for not having a pet is in the Wild Imp damage. Therefore, if the largest source of compensation (and the biggest reason to take GoSac) does not benefit from the 2 set, then it sort of detracts from GoSac as an option.

While I'm thinking about it, unless we line up service with a 2 set proc every time, it might end up being worth it to use Supremacy over it.

[Werst]

Even "nerfed" I'm pretty sure everyone will want the amp trinket. 14% passive buff to haste, mastery, and crit multiplier is just too much of a scaling buff. That is while it keeps static int and the proc. Amp for pvp was never going to work... A bis lock might have 15K of haste and another 10K of mastery or vice versa. That is going to be a passive 3500'ish secondary stat points, plus the ~2K static int, plus the proc (in pve). That is with a ilvl in the high 540's to low 550's. With heroic gear we are talking what 575'ish ilvl before upgrades? Let me know if I'm majorly misunderstanding something here...its late and I've not had coffee.

I actually think the slower stacking on the haste/int trinket will not be so bad for aff since it makes for higher overall uptime. Faster stacking = faster expiration or again I might be off my rocker on this...just a thought.