Anyone else thinks Flex 4 is a little bit TOO difficult ?

[Clrg]

BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.

No is not, flex is not supposed to be facerolled and blizzard stated it months ago, flex is for organized groups.

Yesterday we tried that flex with 10 players, 5 from the guild and 5 pugs, 3 of them without experience siegecrafter was a faceroll, klaxxi only require tank swap and call the targets, in garrosh we wipe 4 times, the damage on the tank is a joke, the damage in the realm is a joke, the damage from the empowered lolstorm is a joke, the only dangerous thing is the mind control.

[SodiumChloride]

BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.

It's not. It's made for guilds with attendance problems or don't want to kick Uncle Ted even though he is pulling 20k dps.

LFR is for "FACEROLLER LFR players". **

This is why those saying Flex will kill LFR are delusional.

** Even though I say this, I think Blizzard has lost their way with LFR given the mountains of complaints with regards to how brutal SoO LFR is - personally next week onwards I'm just going to run the 1st wing and blow a coin on Pride to hopefully get my weapon with my other two coins will be going to the Celestials and Ordos, the other wings aren't worth the pain and misery.

[Hyve]

Clearly your raid leading and subsequently your team, was not capable of doing the job. Just improve for next time?

[Belloc]

OP: If you think wing 4 is hard, how did you ever get past Nazgrim, Shamans, and Thok?

I'm guessing you have bad tanks, because tanking mechanics are the only really important parts of the first two fights in Flex 4.

[Ealyssa]

Done all wings yesterday in an openraid PUG.
3 first wings cleared on first pull (everyone knowing them)
4th wing :

Blackfuse : 2 wipes (first pull tank not bringing the add right on the saw, 2nd fail on the conveyer)
Klaxis : kill first pull (a bit too easy imo, after reading all the strat I awaited something more difficult)
Garrosh : 1 wipe (I died on the first Iron star And a few other mistakes)

Imo Flex is really well tuned. Before this mode launch I feared it being either too easy (LFR but with 25 brained players roflstomping everything) or to hard (nearly normal where pug still struggle too much). Flex is exactly what I hoped it was : a light and fun raid environment that you can PUG easily (clearing every wing since start without much of a trouble) while still needing people following the strat and knowing how to play. Having players with 90-100k dps like in LFR will make things harder.

[JIMZ]

definitely not a JIMZ PUG

[Nobleshield]

Flex is not meant to be used by "faceroller LFR players". Flex is meant to be the ICC10 difficulty; were YOU clearing ICC10 in a pug during the first month? Most of us weren't clearing ICC10 with pugs even with 30% buff while Wrath was current.

Surprise, surprise, Flex is challenging. It's meant to be challenging - it's meant to be the normal mode for the friends & family type of guilds (with Normal being their Heroic), so of course it's not going to be simply faceroll by a majority of the playerbase.

[Superlolz]

Your personal raid leading wasn't up to snuff apparently if you were able to do 4/14HM but can't do last wing of flex. You weren't playing with your best raiders obviously but you should have been able to identify the problems after the first few attempts.
Sounds like you were too lax and thought you could faceroll through.

Flex is not the same as LFR. Also 4 healers is way too many for 14 raiders.
My advice is to drop to 2 good healers and take more DPS. Only add a 3rd healer after ~17 total raiders. There isn't enough damage to warrant bringing so many healers to Flex. I think 4-5 healers for a full flex raid is plenty.

[Deleted]

4 healers for 14 people? There is your problem, get better healers.

[Tharkkun]

Flex p4 hard? Only if you make it harder than it is. If you have PTR experience and normal cleared you should have zero problems.

Flex isn't aimed at normal mode players. It's for those in between LFR and normal.

I don't think these are overtuned though. It's made so you might spend a few weeks gearing up in the first 3 wings before you progress through the 4th. Flex isn't there for automatic kills before moving onto normal mode.

[eschatological]

We had a little trouble on Blackfuse because 3 of the DPS weren't paying attention when we said "Don't DPS the tank add," and we were just losing from attrition. As soon as we were like "Why are you DPSing this thing when we said not to?" he fell over from everyone focusing the boss.

[Meto]

Did it with a group of 525+ players most of them with no xp except for about 5. Group was 14 players (btw 14 players optimal is to have 3 healers not 4) and 3 healed all fights but honestly 2 healed most since one of the healers was quite horrid. Honestly only wiped on garrosh once, the mechanics do much less damage. Overall flex scaling is right where it should be, somewhat challenging for inexperienced groups but a complete faceroll for competent players.

[Deleted]

Felt absolutely fine tbh, we outgear it a bit so no wipes (no deaths or even close calls) but if semi-organized groups of people with the intended ilevel are wiping then that's a good sign, Flex != LFR.

Learn the fights and keep at it, you'll get there.

[Thundergnu]

Flex is too easy tbh. if blizzard intends this to be for guilds who lack the skill / time to do normal or just have too many ppl ( wth? ) the difficulty is undertuned as you can't expect anyone to have "progress" in flex.

If it's ment to be a puggable version of siege with complete randoms it might be overtuned as we all know, most randoms aren't very good.

[Deleted]

It's indeed very hard. I expect a 20 % nerf within next week, ekse i quit the game.

[Reyzzz]

Did part 4 last wednesday with 3 wipes.

Oneshot both Blackfuse and Paragons.

2 wipes happened on Garrosh because hunter didn't know what to do with engineers ^^

[Terridon]

If people could just realise it's not made for pugs, but is basically just the old 10-man raids in difficulty, it would be nice.

It's made to actually be progress-raid. You trying to go in with a pug and clear it right away won't work. Blackfuse is actually pretty easy, when people get the hang of it, but you don't find that patience easily in lfr. You can attempt it again in 2 weeks when more have done it.
Overall it works just like intended. Good to hear that pugs don't steamroll the last wing, which is meant to be harder than the others.

[Rackfu]

BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.

This.... This right here is one of the most idiotic things I have read in these forums....

Flex is not meant for LFR players.

[Fanatik]

Just completed it a few mins ago, siegecrafter really has no HP, so we just zerged it and ignored the conveyor belt (achievement). Paragons was a yawn fest. Garrosh just needs 3 ground markers for calling out movement and 1 person capable of killing the siege engineer.

[ocis]

BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.

Your problem is that your group (and an ever growing number of groups it seems) walk into flex thinking this. The health, damage and healing is slightly less than on normal, and scales according to the number of people in the raid - that's the only difference. You still need to know your jobs and the mechanics of the fights. Blizzard has said numerous times that flex was more of a progression sub-step for people who are having difficulty getting far into normal mode or just don't have the time. I don't know how you made it to 4/14 heroic with that kind of attitude but you should've woken up to reality after the first 10 wipes and taken things a little more seriously.