Originally Posted by
ravenmoon
They are not, they made Garrosh evil, but notice how much more good the Tauren and Darkspear trolls are, also notice how good the blood elves have become too, Garrosh may be an evil orc, but then you have a counter in Thrall the green messisah (he is often dubbed as) which should make you think that it's not the horde that's evil, just Garrosh a person that's gone astray pretty much like Arthas was or Illidan, in fact most of the villains have been alliance people gone evilly bad in wow's life. Most people never played warcraft 1 or 2 where the horde was portrayed as evil.
Since then 9 year sof developement on the horde has changed their image around considerbly, Garrosh's exploits may have made it look like the horde is becoming more evil but far more has been done to make the horde good without losing that rather more cuutting edge to it. You don't want a sop story on the horde, they've avoided that, so they gone for making the horde a lot more honourable. They do bad things but they care about that... when the forsaken Putress went all crazy, the horde cared about this, htey locked down and policed undercity..when the Orc general goes crazy and bombs all the druids, Garrosh (good at the time) destroys him as well as reprimands the Splintertree post leader for turning to demonic magic to solve her problems.
You go through the quest,s they are specifically designed for you to be proud of playing the horde, they come of as more realistic too because they encounter the moral trials all of us do whiles the alliance is painstakingly bland. The night elves have to be very good, the humans have to be nice guys, the dwarves are all our buddies, there is no conflict there and thus nothing to tirumph over morally too, whereas you fihgt through on the horde.
It is clear the horde tale is far more sophisticated and developed, and this is intentionally so, the experience, the perception, the faction ahs had to become more attractive and appealing so you keep picking horde, and note that good doens't necessarily mean more appealing, in fact comign good out of evil or touch spots is more appealing than just blandly being good, beucas ethis is what the majority of the playing audience identify with.
Alliance have always had more players, they kicked off that way, the changes ito the horde especially bloode lves in the horde has helped cut that deficit substantially, but it's still there. Sub races would allow us to explore more intriguing scenarios and diversify the races more to players, but all of this is best served in equal popualtion sitautions, so the developer can go back to writing good stories for both sides, and not having to focus more on the horde or sabotage teh alliance to get people or keep people interested in the horde.
it is my belief that with human models accessible on the horde, you will have this opportunity. People won't need the horde having better racials, better stories, stronger development to pick them anymore, because the reason for the imbalance is the humans in the first place. The user is human, most videgoames you have a huamn avatar, the whole lure of the video game etneratinment is to have you a front row ticket to being the star and the hero of the story, naturally in game wtih a human option, tha'ts what most people will pick. they' may change htier minds later, but that's what htey'll pick.
The side without humans will immediately have a distinct disadvantage, why do you think all the two faction games put humans on both sides and consequently have no such balance issues WoW experiences. Even the new ones aren't that stupid, Wildstar again has humans on both factions.
What I show here is that having playable humans on the horde doesn't change and will not change the Human v Orc core of the game more than it as already change, and woudl make for still an engaging story while healing the player population deficit.
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you make it fit, no one wants to read essays on these, well except the really interested, who can spare the time, so I do not take offence if you didn't read the 11 pages on this topic to see how well "healing" forsaken can actually fit and how exciting it can be. If you've read em all and you still disagree, then i'llbe convinced you just don't like the idea, as long as you gave it a fair chance.
there are other options. Could give the forsaken human san'layan (vampires), they're not ghouls like the current forsaken are, they look human and use a humanized version of the new blood elf model, giving access to players.
another option some suggested was using groups like the Syndicate, Defias Brotherhood, Ravenholdt - but all these bodies scream alliance human as they are tied to the alliance and have not been tied to the horde prior to this. If they had been and we had established a non-playing group of living humans on the horde, i'd say go for it. but using them now would look too forced and again in the mind of players would feel like theh orde has become the new alliance, because alliance humans are on it. You don't get that feeling if you're using the forsaken or using vampires.
The problem with human san'layan (vampires) is that they're not really human even though they came from human. We don't think of Worgen as human either, and part of the attraction is not just the model actually having a human.. i.e me to play with on the horde. Which is why I think cured forsaken is better than all the other options, and can actually work quite well, with a little imagination too.
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why do you say zero consideration to the lore? the lore has had almost equal motivaton in this, we all knew the undeath condition was going ot have some sort of cure/resolving at some point, is that why there is no lore consideration? or are you thinking more in terms of the faction identity?
and you don't want to mirorr the two factions at all, at least blizzard don't want to. even having players abel to choose faction with any race shoudln't necessirly mirror the factions. HIgh elves are on the alliance and you don't think the factions are mirrored now. Humans are on the horde as forsaken now and you don't think the factions are mirrored. When the Alterac humans sided with the horde in WC2, you didn't think the factions were mirrored, so why woudl you think they'd be mirrored with a small group of humans on the horde this time either? especially writing a good story about it?
it won't, it never had to, and it shouldn't. Not if you write it properly. And I understand the feeling if uniqueness, may i point out that having living humans on the horde doesn't have to change this? they're not alliance humans they're forsaken and forsaken are on the horde. Is it the models you feel would be a problem? having the forskaen human use blood elf models for this sub-group continues the distinction, and may I remind you that panderan are accessible to both sides, the same model, yet you don't feel that way.
I dn't expect any race but humans, elves and panderan to be shared amongst the factions because blizzard edoes love the distinction and it's only those 3 races that have a lore precedence for being on either side. Humans have the forsaken and alterac humans on the horde, and stormwind and all other living humans on the alliance. The elves have the high elves on the alliance and the blood elves on the horde. these two races might be shared by both factions but they have 2 completley separate identities on either side.
the forsaken have a prominent and distinct identity from the alliance humans as their story shows, the high elves and blood elves though the same race have a distinct identity too linked to their factions and their differing philosophies, this is not new... this is there. Panderan was the new development, because Panderans on both sides have the same philosophy and identity - and yet exist on oth factions, they pick a side whose cause they believe in more, however they are not opposed fundamentally to the core like The Forsaken and Stormwind are or that High Elves and Blood elves are.,
nothing here is new,