(If you want faster queues, be nice to your tanks!)

[Maniac2]

People will start being nice when you get tanks who are properly geared for the raid and know what to do. Having tanks join LFR with full 496 timeless gear with blue weapons, no gems and enchants and no idea on the boss fight doesnt make for a fun fight.

Gear matters in LFR? If tanks have minimum requirement gear, they are just fine. In fact, healing tanks in LFR is just boring, they get really low dmg hits no matter how low they are geared and having no enchants or gems. Thats from healer perspective.

[Tzalix]

I miss the days where if you didn't know something the group would happily explain and if you were a notable tank/healer/dps people would /w you for help....good ol days long gone.

I have no memory of such days. Not in PUGs, anyway.

That's a fault of the 25 man LFR design.

I would say that players are at fault for acting like douchebags.

[mamajag]

Is that strictly true? In my experience in PuGs/LFG it's usually the tank that's the one being somewhat aggressive towards others, especially healers. Now I am not saying all tanks = jerks! But I can't say I personally witnessed many tanks being victimized

Due to the way people treated me, I opted out of LFR because no one understands the concept that sometimes it's the tank's first run in that LFR. I read guides, but I don't really get it until I do it. My guildies are used to it and expect a rough first trip with me but put up with it because they know I'm gonna have it from there. I only tank for my guild, and if I'm in LFR you can bet I've got enough guildies with me to VK anyone who wants to be less than polite. Even DGs I take a pair of guildies with me. There's always someone needing a tank for a fast queue.

I'm always polite to my healers and have tanked for newbie healers and died for their learning curve. I can laugh about wipes. I don't take myself too seriously because it takes too much away from the game. Some of my most memorable runs were with less than skilled guildies.

[Windfury]

I'm fairly confident in saying that 80% of new tanks just need to grow thicker skin and stop feeding trolls. Messing up is fine as long as you learn something from it and don't repeat it, and it really doesn't matter if some replaceable leech blows things out of proportion. Don't take it overly personal if some lfr group decides to remove for a mistake you admittedly did because you'll be back in a new group in no time, but please don't be a jerkoff and abuse this fact and just horse around.

Supply and demand says hi.

Tanks are in high demand, why should they change their expectations? It's the people who need tanks who should be looking at what they can do to increase tank supply, and from all of the polls and threads that involves modifying their behaviour to something approaching basically civil.

I'm sure I'd be what you'd consider thin skinned, but the reality is I'm just a grown up (and a schoolteacher to boot) with adult expectations about how people should treat eachother in a social setting. That of course makes me totally unsuitable to tank LFR because you have to be willing to be treated like a 14 year old boy, which is something I have more self respect than to accept. It's not my loss at all to skip tanking it, I can easily enough make and tank a server based flex and have way more fun, it's the people who behave badlys problem as far as I can see.

[Dormie]

I don't tank becaue it doesn't feel like a special role anymore. They made it too easy for most fights. It has been meh ever since they nerfed the aggro game.

[McNeil]

I usually see a lot of people flaming tanks at Dark Shamans, even when it was most obvious that a lot of healers weren't healing at all, or that too many dps AFK or don't move out of stuff.

Guess its much easier for 23 people to flame 2 players, instead of 2 people flaming 23 players...

[Tyraena]

Is that strictly true? In my experience in PuGs/LFG it's usually the tank that's the one being somewhat aggressive towards others, especially healers. Now I am not saying all tanks = jerks! But I can't say I personally witnessed many tanks being victimized

Can you blame them? The only people that a raid expects to spend extra time researching each fight to carry 23 mouthbreathers who want to be jerks and kick them at the first sign of trouble - even if that trouble only consists of saying "I have watched the youtube, but never done this fight as a tank yet" type crap?

Maybe LFR groups should give them the same chance to learn the fights they expect - not looking at the fights before showing up - take 5 mins to give them the salient points, then take a stab at it. Maybe then your tanks would seems less like jerks.

[Deleted]

They can fix the problem by putting in AI NPC tanks, in most cases they would outsmart any LFR player tank 10 folds anyway. And give all the mouth breather DPS kids shorter queue.

Yea they can vote for that tank
I haven been in many LFRs as dps and tank depends whtat i going to do.When i go as dps the things who makes me to gigle is some paper tank who have no reforge no gems nothing he just get his Ilv from dps/heal gear and enter as tank.Or ppl who have no idea about basic tank mechanics and always ask wtf i`m dps how the hell i have to know what tanks do for example.As a tank i always know almost every aspect of the fight coz isnt that simple just to taunt the boss and press keys 1 and 2 as many ppl in LFR thinks. Tanking still needs effort but ppl have no time for shitz like this and at the end every one hates them ofc which makes real tanks sad and they dint want to enter and blame dps after

[diddle]

It's just not worth tanking LFR, not enough incentive. people are dicks at the first inconvenience and most are afking.

[Sar-]

I'm a main spec tank (prot paladin), and when I do LFR I usually heal.

GC is absolutely spot on, and he knows what he's talking about, as he asked for feedback from tanks on this very issue a month or more back and sees it himself when he plays in lfr runs on his own characters.

The last time I tanked in LFR, I didn't mess up, and Tbh I rarely do, as I've been tanking for years. However the guy I was tanking alongside on Thok, god love him, he was a baby tank, just starting out, but looking at his gear I knew he was on the right track and looked to know what he was doing with his lowbie gear, that he was just scraping into SoO LFR with.

So as the fights go on, we start off on Malkorok, done. Spoils, done. So we eventually get to Thok, and the entire time during the run he was asking me advice, and I was trying my best to give him pointers on how to improve his play, as well as advice on the various mechanics of the fights. So we get to Thok, and neither of us had done it, but I already knew the fight from my usual research beforehand.

He messed up once, which led to a wipe, and IMMEDIATELY the dps start baying for this guy's blood. Seriously, after 1 wipe in the ENTIRE RUN?

Predictably because of the echo chamber effect in LFR, the votekick blindly passed and out he went. I quit the group on the spot, after calling them out on their behaviour.

THAT'S the reason you have a lack of tanks in LFR.

If a dps messes up, /afks or dies? Who gives a shit?

If a healer messes up, /afks or dies? Brez without complaint.

If a tank messes up, and dies? Hit that votekick button!

But obviously take the opportunity to question the tank's mental retardation level, parentage and wish him misfortune in his future breeding opportunities before that votekick goes through! God forbid you should let him go ignorant of these "facts", or lose the opportunity to display just how much of a complete dickweasel you can be to fellow players!

[Deleted]

Every time I see one of these threads, it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling - especially when people that post things like "tanks are special snowflakes" and "have fragile egos", it really warms my black heart and gives me reassurance that I will never be tanking for the people who do nothing but complain.

Enjoy your hour or more queue and take comfort in knowing, it's not getting any better - on the contrary.

It really is a heart warming feeling.

[Felfurion]

Its not hard skill wise. Its hard to deal with mentally.

I dont tank LFR anymore. I would rather chuck on my undergeared DPS stuff and wait 30-40 minutes while farming mats. I dont tank anymore because majority of DPS dont appreciate what we have to put up with on an average LFR run, theyve just waited 30 minutes and want everything to happen now, have zero patience and often cause their run to become slow.

Im fed up with being told GOGOGOGO, when Im talking to the off tank explaining him how to do things because hes never seen the fight, to have a stupid DPS pull for me.

Im fed up with people taunting all the council together in ToT because they want to cleave it down, only for Sul to not die and wipe us because people are low on DPS and noone is killing the add.

Im fed up with being in the top 10 DPS as a tank.

If you want faster queues as DPS, try treating your tanks and healers with some courtesy and respect and try not to make their lives hell and they might tank another one.

In the meantime, enjoy your 40 minute queues. Ill be tanking Flex, which is easier, quicker and better rewards.

GC is right. I too, cannot be bothered with toxic players in LFR, I have 5 tanks none of which I bother to tank LFR anymore. I prefer to tank Heroics/Normals & Flex because atleast there we have decent players and not the scum of the earth like you can find in LFR. i.e. the moochers/AFKer's, GOGO cheerleading team, trigger happy DPS that impatiently pull before the group is half fulll and wipe the raid for fun, and ofc the brain-damaged trolls.

You can't blame someone's bad attitude on Blizzard. Their ingame attitude only reflects how they are outside of the game, Blizzard can't write a prescription for Ritalin for every ADHD kid in wow.

Back in times of Vanilla/TBC people were friendly, helpful and decent. Now they're rude, unruly, conceited, disrespectful, unskilled, lazy and childish. I could go on but I don't have forever, but you see my point.

[Ragashii]

I think that once Blizzard starting calling a portion of it's own community toxic WITHOUT doing anything to combat it, the situation became worse. Now that everyone thinks the community is toxic it just makes the bad experiences stand out even more than they already did. The best thing Blizzard could do is to stop calling it's own players toxic! It also brings in a new form of apathy and loathing because "The community is just toxic and bad." But they sure do love to say how much of a family we all are at Blizzcon don't they? Sure there are assholes in the game. There are assholes in every game. But to call every instance of bad behavior "toxic" just makes all behavior that doesn't match player expectations "toxic." We as a community need to stop referring to ourselves as toxic and Blizzard needs to stop it too.

[nobody387]

Too much QQ, Even when someone is doing everything right people that don't understand what's going on and start playing the blame game.
Tanks take way to much abuse in LFR I don't blame any of them for having an attitude... I know I'll never tank for LFR a instant queue isn't
worth it. (I don't need tank gear from there only a few dps pieces for my offset anyways )

In any LFR there are usually about 3+ tanks as DPS or healers.. Tanks either need much larger rewards for tanking or People need
to be nicer. Lack of tanks is not the problem just a lack of people willing to tank for LFR.

[Sar-]

I think that once Blizzard starting calling a portion of it's own community toxic WITHOUT doing anything to combat it, the situation became worse. Now that everyone thinks the community is toxic it just makes the bad experiences stand out even more than they already did. The best thing Blizzard could do is to stop calling it's own players toxic! It also brings in a new form of apathy and loathing because "The community is just toxic and bad." But they sure do love to say how much of a family we all are at Blizzcon don't they? Sure there are assholes in the game. There are assholes in every game. But to call every instance of bad behavior "toxic" just makes all behavior that doesn't match player expectations "toxic." We as a community need to stop referring to ourselves as toxic and Blizzard needs to stop it too.

What would you have them do? Bury their heads in the sand, and claim it's all puppy dogs and rainbows?

Toxic environment is toxic. What they should do is put some sort of player rating system in place, and figure out how to prevent it from being gamed. The more toxic players get longer queues, whilst team players, and polite players get quicker queues ahead of the trolls.

- - - Updated - - -

Lack of tanks is not the problem just a lack of people willing to tank for LFR.

It's a lack of tanks because there are a lack of people willing to tank for LFR.

It's just amusing though, the story from the tanks in this thread is pretty much reinforcing what GC said, that Tanks tend to get shit on quicker by the group than any other role.

But the DPS players claim the tanks have "fragile egos", or are "special little snowflakes".

Well here's a radical thought - if you trolls were nice to EVERYONE, not JUST the tanks, then maybe we'd ALL have a better gaming experience as a collective result: Faster queues, more tanks, people would learn the fights quicker, and runs would be completed a lot quicker as a result too. It's Win-Win for everyone involved, but you just know it'll never happen. Not with the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory in full swing anytime any of these brave keyboard warriors get online.

[nekobaka]

Regardless of some tanks having ego issues the tank roll in lower difficulties has more individual responsibility and focus on them than other rolls and this imbalance levels out in the higher difficulties. Blizzard hasnt done much to level out the imbalance and if not made the imbalance even greater in difficulties like LFR where the mob mentality usually ends up protecting disruptive DPS players and turns that disruption on the tanks and healers. When ever Blizzard tries to give increased personal responsibility to DPS the players will scream bloody murder and yet when Blizzard gives the tanks more responsibility there is rarely any support for the tanks and instead DPS bitching about queues.

The entitlement toxicity of the DPS LFR population has just gotten worse. LFR being 25 man was supposed to resolve high DPS queue issues but instead just gave more room for which players filled up and exceed to create queues that are almost twice as long as the queues of Cata five mans. With Blizzards current lack of trying to resolve the issues it is up to LFR DPS to fix their own filth, lets see if they can see past their own self entitlement issues and actually work together as a community.

[ThrallQQ]

I rarely tank LFR because there's always a bitchfest going on about something be it a mistake I made or the previous tank that they vote kicked. That and DPS who think they're tanks and pull mobs.

Nothing annoys me more than that. I don't care how much you overgear it or how easy it is for me to get threat. I have one job to do and I expect to be able I do it at my own pace. I can't count how many times I had a healer speced DPS or a DPS pulling everything before I had even one second to switch to BM on a Monk alt I recently leveled. And all the DKs in blood presence or DPS warriors charging in? Even had a pally who Q'd as ret who was prot. Requests for him to stop trying to tank fell on deaf ears so I just left.

Needles to say I won't ever be tanking LFR on the Monk and only with guildies/friends on my Druid.

[PrairieChicken]

People don't tank because you can't autoattack AFK with tanks.

DPS AFKs : no one gives fuck
Healer AFKs : no one gives fuck
Tank AFKs : wipe

If LFR was smaller size with more individual responsibilities on everyone it won't happen as much

[Lolvanish]

Everyone just needs to be nicer in general

[Bremmon]

I don't know, I never have issues with my three tanks.. I think the bigger issue is I do LFR on all my tanks on Tuesday, there is zero reason for me to run it again during the week. I usually save late week LFR for my toons I dont care about, so if they get bad groups or fail terribly and I quit it doesn't matter if I don't get it done.