So what do you guys think about them removing stun on Warrior's Charge?

[DrMcNinja]

Actually have to agree with what people are saying about stun charge being iconic. Then again charge's cooldown is only 12 seconds, which is half of what it used to be back in vanilla. I just wouldn't want to be a warrior facing a druid though lol.

You still got an iconic ability. Paladins lost their auras, their unique buffs, Seal of Command, Divine Intervention etc.

[Korgoth]

Isn't it weird how Rogues got nerfed in the same patch? Specifically their stuns....

Isn't it weird that you can't even comprehend that Nerve Strike is an effect caused added after a stun and not a stun. Rogue stuns werent nerfed, and Nerve Strike is still fucking ridiculous at 25%.

[Yvaelle]

Actually have to agree with what people are saying about stun charge being iconic. Then again charge's cooldown is only 12 seconds, which is half of what it used to be back in vanilla. I just wouldn't want to be a warrior facing a druid though lol.

Charge didn't stun in Vanilla, and wasn't usable in combat - which means the effective cooldown was often much longer. Although Fury did have Intercept - which was usable in combat, but had a 30 second cooldown and didn't stun. It's hardly iconic if it didn't exist the way everyone talks about it, during the period they keep referring to

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we got rid of iconic in Cata when everyone got a stun, kick, ms... homogenized.

Priests.... no stuns, no interrupts, no mortal strike. I want to be homogenized at this point ><

[Demsi]

Personally i dont really care too much, charge still serves as a reliable gap closer wich it was intended to, i can understand how it affects Pve (galakras) but if you need that stun you can always just spec into warbringer.

[Dishonoured]

Charge didn't stun in Vanilla, and wasn't usable in combat - which means the effective cooldown was often much longer. Although Fury did have Intercept - which was usable in combat, but had a 30 second cooldown and didn't stun. It's hardly iconic if it didn't exist the way everyone talks about it, during the period they keep referring to

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Priests.... no stuns, no interrupts, no mortal strike. I want to be homogenized at this point ><

Nah, they did stun in Vanilla. It's just people didn't (often) use them as interrupts. It was mostly there for the player's character to have it catch up to the animation and the stun was already over by the time you got there (it lasted 1 second) so they weren't moving away from you as you were catching up to their last location. It's pretty much an obsolete feature now. Charge jumping was probably one of the dumbest things I ever did as a Warrior in Vanilla, but then again once you were a geared Warrior you were just dumb anyways.

[DiscoGhost]

Charge didn't stun in Vanilla, and wasn't usable in combat - which means the effective cooldown was often much longer. Although Fury did have Intercept - which was usable in combat, but had a 30 second cooldown and didn't stun. It's hardly iconic if it didn't exist the way everyone talks about it, during the period they keep referring to

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Priests.... no stuns, no interrupts, no mortal strike. I want to be homogenized at this point ><

well blanket silence(better than interupt imo) i havnt played shadow in a while but didnt MB come with a stun glyph and didnt mind spike mind flay come with a mortal strike?

[Saberstrike]

Meh; Not the worst change in the world. Rather have them take 2x reflect and 2x interrupt away. Highly doubt it'll actually make it to live as is. As someone who mained warrior since tbc, it will probably be missed but it ain't anything to lose sleep over. It served it's purpose and in honest truth all the stuns are just redundant at this point, rather have it do something to RELIABLY get me to my target (eg. small speed boost like wlock felguard) so that I can then use my interrupts / stuns / w/e like they're meant to be used.

In honest truth, all this stun-immobilize crap is just clutter. What I really want for charge (and monk roll, and hunter disengage) is a change that makes it so if you get into one of the gazillion random aoe ccs (stun / root, etc.) you still continue moving to your target (charge) or to the end of intended destination (roll / disengage). That way charge won't need any farts and whistles attached to it.

Movement should be for moving, not interrupting, healing, webbing or anything of the sort.

[Spoonman]

All nerfs to Warriors are good

[apepi]

I would rather them change one of the talent ones. Like rather Storm Bolt stunning, have it apply a Nerve Strike like effect.

[Flaks]

Charge didn't stun in Vanilla, and wasn't usable in combat - which means the effective cooldown was often much longer. Although Fury did have Intercept - which was usable in combat, but had a 30 second cooldown and didn't stun. It's hardly iconic if it didn't exist the way everyone talks about it, during the period they keep referring to

Wow, you've repeated the same wrong thing twice in this thread. Charge has ALWAYS stunned. ALWAYS. Yes, in Vanilla too. And intercept was never Fury-exclusive. If you're moderating the thread at least read some of the responses to make sure the discussion actually progressing instead of hampering it.

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I would rather them change one of the talent ones. Like rather Storm Bolt stunning, have it apply a Nerve Strike like effect.

Or switch Bladestorm and Stormbolt so warriors have access to one less stun.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They should add Juggernaut as baseline(The 12 second charge IMO). I don't know why they removed the 1.5 second stun.

[Flaks]

Meh; Not the worst change in the world. Rather have them take 2x reflect and 2x interrupt away.

2x reflect has already been removed with the reverting of intervene buff. Safeguard is now mandatory in competitive play and so MSR is basically never seen in anything outside of "for funsies" builds.

Charge has stunned because warriors needed it. What ARMS warriors DIDN'T need was access to shockwave and/or stormbolt.

[SodiumChloride]

You still got an iconic ability. Paladins lost their auras, their unique buffs, Seal of Command, Divine Intervention etc.

And 5 min Blessings. Their refreshing them mid-raid was iconic.

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They should add Juggernaut as baseline(The 12 second charge IMO). I don't know why they removed the 1.5 second stun.

LOL. Warriors have too much mobility as it is, they are practically unpeelable. Even Blizzard feels it's too much.

[DechCJC]

I don't play a warrior and even I know that it's completely retarded. One of the most iconic spells for a warrior and they're completely screwing it, sigh - I miss WotLK warrior so much I don't care if it was underpowered or overpowered, it was fun.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

LOL. Warriors have too much mobility as it is, they are practically unpeelable. Even Blizzard feels it's too much.

Yeah but taking away the stun IMO isn't the greatest answer either.

[SodiumChloride]

Yeah but taking away the stun IMO isn't the greatest answer either.

/shrug

Who know Blizzard reasoning? Probably too many stuns from Warriors. Every 12 sec + Shockwave/Stormbolt might have been a bit much. Throw in AoE Fear + AoE Silence + Spell Reflects, casters might as well just AFK.

[DechCJC]

/shrug

Who know Blizzard reasoning? Probably too many stuns from Warriors. Every 12 sec + Shockwave/Stormbolt might have been a bit much. Throw in AoE Fear + AoE Silence + Spell Reflects, casters might as well just AFK.

So take out shockwave, you don't mess around with the most iconic abilities in the game. I could care less if they made shockwave prot only or whatever and gave us something else.

[SodiumChloride]

So take out shockwave, you don't mess around with the most iconic abilities in the game. I could care less if they made shockwave prot only or whatever and gave us something else.

I think they are also trying to nerf Warrior mobility. If you take Warbringer, you will only be Charging every 20 secs instead of every 12 sec. More mobility or a stun very 20 sec. Pick your poison.

[Disconnected]

Stun was never key component of charge, double time was the mandatory talent for pvp and it still will be. Being able to charge two times is better than one charge every 20 seconds with stun. Charging two times without any cd is extremely important against casters.

...Double time has never been the mandatory talent for PVP and never will be. It's a garbage talent and only people who don't understand how it works think it's better than Juggernaut. But hey, don't take my word for it, let's just look at the top 10 Warriors in 3s for both US and EU.

US:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lloon/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...exxin/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nutzw/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Mattu/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...attwo/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rince/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...xxius/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%A9v/advanced
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...xxius/advanced

EU:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...5rtom/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...andes/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%B3dx/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...B2odx/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...artom/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...blaze/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...eavin/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...wacky/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...wacky/advanced
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ister/advanced

So many top PVPers using Double Time...

Its better to be able to charge again instantly, than wait for 12seconds. In pvp, generally everything is better now than later.

Why are you talking about freedom? Warrior does not give a shit if target is running as long as it doesnt get away, double charge + rest of the gap closers + hamstring will ensure that target is not getting away.

After countless arenas, mostly 2s, I could not imagine playing without double time.

He's talking about Hand of Freedom because if you're trying to close the gap, Hand of Freedom will make Charge much worse as a gap closer since it prevents you from being rooted. As it stands right now, regardless of whether or not the target has Hand of Freedom, they're staying put for 1.5 seconds when you charge. When this change goes live, you might as well not even Charge if the target has Hand of Freedom because they're just going to keep running. Lastly, 2s is a horrible bracket so I'm not even going to go into why your argument is completely pointless if you're going to use "It's good in 2s" as a point of validation. However, just to humor you, Juggernaut is still better even in 2s so you're just a terrible Warrior.

You should play warrior

Maybe you should play Warrior better, or at least understand how Double Time works. You seem to think that Double Time has independent CDs on each charge of Charge. However, the exact opposite is true. If you use Charge 2x in a row, you're going to have to wait 40 seconds before you can charge 2x again. Charge can only refresh one charge at a time, so if you used 2 within a short time frame, you're going to be waiting 40 seconds for your 2nd charge of Charge to come back up. What this means is that ultimately, the more you use Charge, the worse Double Time is.

Here's an attempt to try to explain this to you.

Scenario 1:
-5 minute fight
-Charge on CD with Juggernaut
-2x Charge on CD with Double Time

Total Charges with Juggernaut: 25
Total Rage generation with Juggernaut: 500
Total Charges with Double Time: 15
Total Rage generation with Double Time: 300

Scenario 2:
-5 minute fight
-Charge on CD with Juggernaut
-2x Charge on CD with 5 second gap with Double Time + Charge on CD every time after that

Total Charges with Juggernaut: 25
Total Rage generation with Juggernaut: 500
Total Charges with Double Time: 15
Total Rage generation with Double Time: 300

Scenario 3:
-5 minute fight
-Charge on CD with Juggernaut
-2x Charge on CD with 12 second gap (Juggernaut CD) with Double Time + Charge on CD every time after that

Total Charges with Juggernaut: 25
Total Rage generation with Juggernaut: 500
Total Charges with Double Time: 15
Total Rage generation with Double Time: 300

What's that? It didn't change? Why not? Because it's a fucking lie. The 2nd charge of Double Time Charge does NOT start recharging until the 1st charge is finished recharging. If you use your first Charge at 0 seconds and your second Charge at 5 seconds, your first charge will be available at 20 seconds and your second Charge will be available at 40 seconds. The only time Double Time would be even remotely better is if you need increased mobility every 40+ seconds at the cost of having your overall mobility decreased. In other words, the only time Double Time might be better is if you only have to close gaps once every 40 seconds.

Also you had intervene and leap as well as double time, don't pretend double time nerfed your mobility, it really didn't.

See above, especially the last paragraph.

[apepi]

Maybe you should play Warrior better, or at least understand how Double Time works. You seem to think that Double Time has independent CDs on each charge of Charge. However, the exact opposite is true. If you use Charge 2x in a row, you're going to have to wait 40 seconds before you can charge 2x again. Charge can only refresh one charge at a time, so if you used 2 within a short time frame, you're going to be waiting 40 seconds for your 2nd charge of Charge to come back up. What this means is that ultimately, the more you use Charge, the worse Double Time is.

Doesn't it also give you more rage than Double Time as the second charge is not supposed to give you rage? You might have convinced me switching to Juggernaut. Only reason I see Double time being better is if you need to charge 2 times in a row fast then do not need to in a while.