New/returning raiders.. why even try raiding?

[Normie]

Hows a casual suppose to raid?

You find a guild that does organized flex raids.

Blizzard seems to think that would work, but I'm not convinced that there is a guild anywhere in the universe that does that.

So, maybe, you don't.

[mistahwilshire]

You find a guild that does organized flex raids.

Blizzard seems to think that would work, but I'm not convinced that there is a guild anywhere in the universe that does that.

So, maybe, you don't.

There are dozens of them on my server.

[Calyssto]

You find a guild that does organized flex raids.

Blizzard seems to think that would work, but I'm not convinced that there is a guild anywhere in the universe that does that.

So, maybe, you don't.

We are doing organized flex raids every saturday with our main raiders taking friends / family / nice people we meet in LFR or elsewhere who are interested in raiding and can meet the minimal requirements we put in (520 ilvl , enchanted , gemmed gear). But more than the gear it is actually attitude what matters. So people saying it doesn't happen, maybe they are just not looking hard enough.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Why even try raiding right now in WoW? Because you like to raid.

So you're telling me that you have to have a item level above what you cant even achieve to do flex/normal and only way to get that item level is to do those? You aren't looking in the right places, I've been into quite a few flex runs where the requirements are low (sometimes way too low, dps pulling 95k in 545ilvl is just painful). Groups that don't have exceptionally high standards exist, they also tend to have some wipes so then it becomes how much failure will you tolerate before moving on.

Hows a casual suppose to raid? By spending their time wisely. I am a casual player, I raid 6 hours a week and somehow manage to be 7/14 heroic. Your excuse of time isn't valid, if you don't have enough time to raid then you likely are bad at managing it.
*snipped wall of text*

My answers to your main questions in bold.

[Durandro]

Find a different and better guild. Expecting pugs to carry an undergeared person just because they claim to be a veteran (of Wrath, no less...) isn't going to go well.

Example: our Feral Druid. Joined my guild when he made a new EU account, had awful gear. We took him anyway because he got on well with people, and brought him be non-progression raids where he did awful DPS due to lack of legendary, tier, decent trinkets, etc. Now he's getting geared up, he's closing that gap and we made an investment for next expansion.

That's how its done.

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What kind of question is that? Cloaks are the prime example of Play 2 Win. Play long enough and complete all the quests and you have the advantage over those who don't do that.

Someone doesn't understand what P2W actually means, or how MMO's work.

[Deleted]

The game has gone to the dogs, that's why.

Nobody takes risks anymore, which is their loss because there's potentially a lot of great players that are simply being told "no" to the point they quit the game entirely.

Far too much focus on ilvl and achievements these days.

[Lioneil]

As someone said said you raid now gear will be reset yea. But you be there you getting experience come next xpac there be no way to tell who is good or not sure go back kill Garrosh at 100. But with people will be looking for people who kill it when it was fresh and new. And join new guild you can get know these people fill in that raid spot that there missing then come next Xpac when start forming groups you first on the raid leader mind all these people that has left wow coming back has to get back use to raiding and all. There some people that only want to play wow and raid so you find groups if really want raid coming next xpac get your kill now so you can say i done i know how to raid. And if you enjoy raiding then do it it can be very fun with group friends people doing all together.

[Shmeh]

The game has gone to the dogs, that's why.

Nobody takes risks anymore, which is their loss because there's potentially a lot of great players that are simply being told "no" to the point they quit the game entirely.

Far too much focus on ilvl and achievements these days.

You're wrong. Guilds focusing on progression can't bring in undergeared players to fill roles and still work on progression, unless they're recruiting for the bench, or have a bench. It's too much of a time and gear investment. If you have no impressive previous achievements and your gear is out of date, then you're simply going to have to aim for a lesser progressed or more casual guild. The risk isn't a reasonable one, time and gear is too valuable to people progressing.

[noladrew]

Why be in a guild that doesn't want to help you get gear?

They want you to be geared to help raid with them, but not want to help you do that? Doesn't make much sense to me, Id rather help raid with people that would in return help me. READ WHAT I POSTED, I got a guild to run me now, I got gear now. Im talking in general to others that are new and returning that are trying to raid right now. Im just talking about what I went through. Im not looking for a guild or pug anymore.

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Playing PVP is an excuse when I back then had no interest in raiding. I am currently on the clock quest. Ive been pvping the whole expansion and casually at that with only about 6-10 hours a week.

I think it's reasonable for a guild to want someone with similar progression and gear to their group when recruiting someone. You will come across groups that are desperate and will take the right person and gear them up, if they think its worth. Doesn't happen often, but it does. Its not about helping a group that won't help you. It, by all means, is a two way street. That being said, guilds that are trying to progress without the new recruit hindering them aren't going to want to full on carry someone. People that are recently returning to the game or new to raiding (whatever the case may be, have low gear and/or experience) need to find some actual "friends" in the game to help them or grind lfr/world bosses. Complaining that <Random Guild> won't help you accomplishes nothing. They don't know you as much as you don't know them. If it was a group of previous friends, then they were assbags to you, move on. A majority of the game is either a huge grind fest if you play solo (LFR/World Bosses/Timeless Isle 535 double upgrade/etc) or dependent on what you and your friends can do. If you don't have what a guild that you don't know is looking for, they won't want you. Simple as that. And I say all of this as information to anyone out there in a situation similar to yours, not just you. You found a friendly group of people that were willing to help you, I'm 100% happy that you found that. There's nothing in the game that requires random people to be nice to other random people and do things for them. Just the way it is.

[Anzen]

Not evenyone can play ya know 10 hours or more a day. for item levels.

Not sure if it was the quote above or the lack of paragraphing that made me stop taking you seriously.

You just re-joined the game and you are complaining all content is not accessible to you?

[Deleted]

So when did raiding become a elitist fest? 540+ flex.. 550+ normal? Must have cloak? Shitting me? So you're telling me that you have to have a item level above what you cant even achieve to do flex/normal and only way to get that item level is to do those?

I remember back in later TBC people looking in chat for tanks or healers with full T5/T6 gear for Karazhan PUGs.
So, this is nothing new.

[Lavalashlol]

P.S not all guilds are assholes about stuff either, you just got into shit ones. If we see value in a character, we run them through farm bosses because we feel that they will be able to contribute at some point. Whining on the forums is a great way for a lot of people not to take you seriously though.

[britishbubba]

What kind of question is that? Cloaks are the prime example of Play 2 Win. Play long enough and complete all the quests and you have the advantage over those who don't do that.

P2W is PAY to win, not PLAY to win.

And the cloaks are so far from pay to win that it's not even funny.

[Deleted]

Another thread made by a person who only can see things from his own perspective.

Just wonderful

[Lavalashlol]

P2W is PAY to win, not PLAY to win.

And the cloaks are so far from pay to win that it's not even funny.

Nope I pay for my sub, must be P2W luls

[Anzen]

Nope I pay for my sub, must be P2W luls

Farming The Cloak Takes (Time).

Time = Money.

Farming The Cloak Takes (Money).

CONFIRMED. THE LEGENDARY CLOAK IS P2W.

[Lavalashlol]

Farming The Cloak Takes (Time).

Time = Money.

Farming The Cloak Takes (Money).

CONFIRMED. THE LEGENDARY CLOAK IS P2W.

And by this reasoning, all gear is P2W. Clever Blizzard, having a P2W system in place this whole time.

[Vyadore]

The game has gone to the dogs, that's why.

Nobody takes risks anymore, which is their loss because there's potentially a lot of great players that are simply being told "no" to the point they quit the game entirely.

Far too much focus on ilvl and achievements these days.

This is not REALLY true but kinda true.

A lot of guilds don't have the variety of players/variety of experience I remember many guilds used to have. So many guilds have thinned their rosters to only have a certain type of player (heroic raiders don't have as many active social members, gear runs for alts are not as common, etc).

BUT...I think that will change in WOD. With the expansion of flex raiding to include all raiding except Mythic, guilds will be willing to be more "flexible" with people who are coming in at different points in an expansion. Our guild is a heroic raiding guild and we have all kinds for raiding. Alt runs, normal runs, heroic progression, Flex Night, and social stuff. We let people show us what they got and filter into whatever they are capable of. However, I think our guild is more the exception than the rule nowadays.

[Eladis]

Guilds don't mind bringing undergeared players if you can prove to them you can become a valuable asset. That being said, being 515 item level is not even close to a good item level to do anything related to normal Siege.

Instead of complaining on the forums, you can spend that time wisely gearing up you character by doing LFR, ToT normal, getting Burdens of Eternities, wing 1 flex (people don't really care too much about ilvl for this wing). LFR and grinding for Burdens tend to be more casual friendly compared to the other two options but both can be done with 2-3 hours a day of playing. Openraid is also is a great option for finding groups if your luck isn't doing so great in trade chat. Hell, you can probably even do some pvp to get 522 gear. Pvp items may not be optimal but it's probably better than that timeless isle 496 piece.

If you can't do the things I just mentioned above, why should any raid group even want to bring a person who isn't even putting in minimal effort to try and gear their character. Will it take a few weeks worth of time to get into raiding? Sure, stepping into raiding will take a few weeks. If you cannot accept that, maybe raiding isn't for you. WoD isn't too far off, maybe you should do random stuff while waiting for that.

[Lavalashlol]

Guilds don't mind bringing undergeared players if you can prove to them you can become a valuable asset. That being said, being 515 item level is not even close to a good item level to do anything related to normal Siege.

Instead of complaining on the forums, you can spend that time wisely gearing up you character by doing LFR, ToT normal, getting Burdens of Eternities, wing 1 flex (people don't really care too much about ilvl for this wing). LFR and grinding for Burdens tend to be more casual friendly compared to the other two options but both can be done with 2-3 hours a day of playing. Openraid is also is a great option for finding groups if your luck isn't doing so great in trade chat. Hell, you can probably even do some pvp to get 522 gear. Pvp items may not be optimal but it's probably better than that timeless isle 496 piece.

If you can't do the things I just mentioned above, why should any raid group even want to bring a person who isn't even putting in minimal effort to try and gear their character. Will it take a few weeks worth of time to get into raiding? Sure, stepping into raiding will take a few weeks. If you cannot accept that, maybe raiding isn't for you. WoD isn't too far off, maybe you should do random stuff while waiting for that.

See if he sat down with me or an officer in my guild and could give us a reason to bring him, Ilvl doesn't matter. He could go stand in a corner and collect loot, but he needs to articulate his worth to us, and when he's geared, he needs to prove it or be removed.