Tall Poppy Syndrome against raiders.

[Meiluy]

People who do LFR were never in the raiding pool to begin with. Blizzard has actually said this.

Without LFR, people would have nothing to do.

So anyone thinking "well if they take LFR away it'll FORCE casuals to do better!" is dead wrong.

Well, as I raid AND do LFR, I'm gonna have to discredit your statement. I mainly do LFR, as it allows me to enter and complete them when I have the time to, not on a set schedule with my guild. I also raid when I am able to make the scheduled run. Before LFR, I was a raider (except for Cata, but that was due to having a kid to take care of then). When I came back in MoP, I wanted to raid still, but having to work 40+ hours a week and take time for my family took away from that, so I did LFR when I had the time (usually late at night).

If LFR didn't exist, I would find different things to do to enjoy the game I love... maybe I'd be an idiot and neglect my family to continue raiding, maybe I'd just spend more time doing pet battles... who knows?

The point is, LFR isn't the only thing we have at end-game. It just allows us one more option.

[Pickynerd]

Fixed that for you.

Not everybody was "proud" of that as some of us realized it was just an extra number and we could've spent more time doing something more constructive and fun for us than getting the .025 DPS upgrade for nearly an hour.

In fact, those gear shifts between tiers back then was so miniscule that I didn't even bother upgrading to the next set and allowed the others to simply roll on them, saving my DKP for the next raid zone where I could actually get a worthwhile upgrade. I went from ZG > Tier 2 > Tier 3, giving most MC and AQ40 gear a miss.

I said people, not "everyone", there was no need to fix it. Btw, an hour back in vanilla was nothing, what were you going to do that was more constructive in 45 minutes? Check your mail? Run to another city? /LFG?

[Socialhealer]

there will always be idiots on both sides, heroic raiders and LFR players.

[twiddler]

In game, I've seen players randomly insult others for not being competitive heroic raiders. I have never seen players randomly insult heroic raiders for being heroic raiders. So, it is hard for me to understand exactly what people are complaining about though I agree, when you have gear revealing some amount of skill, during a debate, other players seem to quickly refer to you as an elitist.

[RapBreon]

See, this your delusion here. You seriously think that those are "attacks".

You seriously think that in thread after thread of, "Remove LFR" and "Don't let casuals get loot" that anyone pushing back is "attacking raiders".

Even if we say, "Gosh, that was such a mean anti-raider post" it's still just a sneeze in a hurricane compared to all the casual-bashing around here.

Dude that was pretty intense...the best part was it was ironic to its very foundation. The entire premise was how much 'better' he was at being a 'human' than the raider; it was elitism at its very core. "You think you can compare to me? To my hardships? My difficulties? I have done and sacrificed more than you?" etc.

But hey, galvanizing opinions sell.

Obligatory; yes raiders can be this intense as well.

[Canderous1]

it really has changed over time.

back in EQ i remember when my guild would get server first and even a few world firsts people from the server were largely supportive and pumped about it. I remember our first OMM kill, when the serverwide emote went out i got whispers from rogues all over the server congratulating us. back then though there wasnt really an us or them thing, everyone knew if you wanted the best gear you had to put in the time and effort, thats just how it was.

[rasako]

The irony about this, is that the only active poster in this thread being emotional about it is you.

Everyone else is bordering on apathy and mild bemusement at you being mad.

But to each his own, if it satisfies you to be bitter, hypocritical and passive aggressive all rolled into one, then so be it.

you realise that you are actually the shining example of everything you just posted? lmfao

[Deleted]

Why shouldn't raiders feel special? They put HUGE effort in raiding. And as far as i know, best players rarely act like special snowflakes..

Same with PVP.. challenge modes.. achievements..
Even pet battles..
They all should reward effort..

Hard work deserves nice rewards.. to motivate.. Once you give everything for free, it looses its value..
---

Why League of Legends is so popular? Same map over and over again.. looks boring on paper..
Ladders.. events for best teams.. championships..
Casuals have their "heroes" to look up to.. to love..
its called - esports.

Pro players are part of community, they should be recognized and loved.. NOT hated..

[Cephilia]

Oh great, this thread again... I'm a raider (12/14HC), I put time and effort into my raiding and guess what? No casual has ever been an asshole towards me. Ever. Why? Because they are people too and I don't think that they should somehow bow down to me for something I do for myself. I raid because it's fun; if you want to be recognized as better than others, go do something that actually beneficial to others instead of looking down on everyone who has different interests than you.

[Deleted]

I dont see this mentality towards heroic raiders in-game, but I do see it every day on MMO-C and the official forums.

People call heroic raiders and anyone who strives for anything beyond LFR "special snowflakes" on here daily.

[Stuffs]

14/14H. I've had a lot of pissing contests in this game but I've only argued with one person about raiding to begin with, and they had a host of other issues. You see a lot of noise on the forums but little substance, it's not really representative of the community.

[Mermaid]

Pretty much. Sure, some people who didn't raid admired them...but most probably didn't give a single fuck about it.
A lot of raiders thought that many people looked up to them, because while standing in front of the Ironforge AH for several hours per day pretending to be afk, there usually was a least one player targeting them. That's some serious admiration!

If that were the case we wouldn't have half the player base crying about the removal of LFR tiers.

[fabone]

I think it's always been the same, it's just more easy to see it nowadays with lots more people/media about the game. I can guarantee in vanilla people were calling top raiders nerds with no lives etc.

[KaPe]

I think it's always been the same, it's just more easy to see it nowadays with lots more people/media about the game. I can guarantee in vanilla people were calling top raiders nerds with no lives etc.

Sure, it happened. Granted, the main difference was that it was harder to be "good" back then. There were no catchup mechanics, no badge loot, crafts were terrible and getting high end pvp gear was insane grind. At very least, it wasn't possible to have the "same" kind of epics as high end raiders, except from LFR.

We always had assholes on both sides. It's just that expansions bridged the gap between two groups and thus made the raiders less... "prestigous"? "Relevant"? Well, whatever we called, it's rather obvious what it means. Some people lose their shit over this and thus give other raiders a bad name. It's a vicious circle... well, not really. Quite often (obviously not always) the "real high end raiders" don't give a damn about it and merely do when seeing yet another wannaba master raider make "remove LFR for good" thread. They're kinda like "real casuals" in that regard - they do their own thing and don't need to rage on forums on either group.

[Deleted]

I raid about 12 hours a week although currently about 6 since Its farm mode. I've downed Lei Shen heroic pre 5.4 and Garrosh about 8-10 times on heroic now. Still get the odd whisper here and there telling me to "Stop wasting your life n00b". But I'd be lying if I didn't say I get positive comments too. Recently I've had plenty of people whisper me saying "Nice transmog", "Nice mount", "Omg bro your weapon!!!one!".

Maybe I'm a special case but I definitely have to say that the good far out weighs the negative.

Though I've learned from the past if some one is doing the wrong rotation or has the wrong gems./talents etc its better not to mention it and let them get on with it no matter how bad they seem because as soon as one person tries to help another by giving a friendly whisper "You should take X instead of Y because it'll increase your damage!" Thats when you get the negative comments. Sure if some one asks for help its different but never point out what some one should of done.
Thats probably a bad way to play the game as its supposed to be a community based game but sadly majority of players don't see it that way.

Sure I've got special mounts, gear and titles I don't exactly flaunt them off, yeah when I got my Kor'Kron Destroyer I did run around shrine a few times but doesn't everyone when they get a new mount? Whether its off the end boss on heroic or from a previous expansion. I think realistcally a lot of people just need to worry about their own game and how they're own progress is let alone calling people bad for having no raid gear or being full heroic warforged. Also on this I don't care if Billy goes in next expansion with a group of 10 and does garrosh heroic and he happens to get the mount I got when it was hard. I've got a Feat of Strength to say yeah this guy achieved something, I'm cool with that. All heroic raiders get their time to show off with the latest gear and mounts who cares if the entire player base has them a year later or whatever.

Cheers,

Ripply.

[Deleted]

Hate to break it to you OP, but raiders were never admired by non-raiders, they always been frowned upon for being elitist twats and spoilt brats who demand special treatment. It's been like that since Vanilla, so I can only concluded that you haven't played for very long, or alternatively had very limited contact throughout most of those years with anyone outside of your own raid guild.

I'd say if anything, "raiders" today have a much better imiage among the general community, mostly because of the fact that a much larger portion of the community raid, or have raided, themselves than during say Vanilla or TBC.

[Deleted]

yeah...no

raiders thought people looked up to them.....its called ego and delusion.

the rep raiders have and yes ive been one, is largely deserved, not all, but the "i'm so pro" attitude is absurd, and the idea that because you do a certain type of content you are better than other players is quite frankly moronic.

you do it in you post, assume raiders have more merit......its that attitude that creates the backlash..

Because no hockey-playing youth has ever looked up to Wayne Gretzky? And no football-playing kid has ever looked up to Messi or Ronaldo?
And being one of the top 0.1% - 1% in any given field is not a merit?
What DID you smoke before you wrote that post?

[Caliph]

blizzard isn't getting rid of raiding so don't worry what the rest think. they can pokemon, dungeon, alt, transmog, and now play house.

don't worry about it.

[Deleted]

Because no hockey-playing youth has ever looked up to Wayne Gretzky? And no football-playing kid has ever looked up to Messi or Ronaldo?
And being one of the top 0.1% - 1% in any given field is not a merit?
What DID you smoke before you wrote that post?

wow....you just compared people playing computer games to world class athletes.....lol.

Look, I enjoy games, I even enjoy occasionally watching a SC2 stream, but I'm not sure anyone except a miniscule proportion of the playerbase actually "look up" to raiders in hardcore guilds, most people tend to look at them as bit of a group of weirdos to be honest because of the schedules and obsessive nature of them.

I've nothign against raiding, or raiders, but I really think anyone who thinks even a small proportion of hte player base looks up to raiders is sorely in need of a reality check.

[Warlord Booty]

There is a lot of hate in general. If I want to do LFR without gems or enchants cuz it's my 6th alt that just dinged and I don't want to wasted resources like that on entry level raid gear... I can, it's my business.

I did admire some guilds back in the day that were good and friendly. Like, if we couldn't down a boss for whatever reason, I'd ask and get positive replies, or if I was asking a rival spriest what numbers they were pulling.