Miegakure - 4D Platformer (Yes, you heard me! 4 Dimensional Platformer!)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Crazy stuff!

[Deleted]

That's pretty fucking cool.

[Pendulous]

I don't get it. They don't explain WHAT the fourth dimension is, or how it's actually being used. Saying "4th dimension to sidestep this wall" might as well just say "dimension door to teleport through this wall".

[Rixis]

I don't get it. They don't explain WHAT the fourth dimension is, or how it's actually being used. Saying "4th dimension to sidestep this wall" might as well just say "dimension door to teleport through this wall".

Yeah, it basically says, well, if I can do it like this from a 2d to 3d perspective, I can do the same from a 3d to 4d perspective. We could carry on an infinite loop to use the 1000th dimension to bypass that wall that's been plaguing is for the previous 999 dimensions.

I mean, it could be a decent mechanic for a puzzle game, but it's no different to using time to rewind segments of levels, or altering the level in other way.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I don't get it. They don't explain WHAT the fourth dimension is, or how it's actually being used. Saying "4th dimension to sidestep this wall" might as well just say "dimension door to teleport through this wall".

No; basically, imagine this: when you go to the fourth dimension; your just seeing a different side (still with me here?) of the board. But it's still the same board. When you walk to other side of the fourth dimension, then go back to the third, you will see that you've only walked around the obstacle.

[Polarthief]

I don't get it. They don't explain WHAT the fourth dimension is, or how it's actually being used. Saying "4th dimension to sidestep this wall" might as well just say "dimension door to teleport through this wall".

This is how I feel, too. While I get the 2D-3D concept and I'm not criticizing the game for what it is (because it's a neat concept in an era devoid of good concepts besides SHOOT EVERYTHING), I'm criticizing calling something 4D without actually telling us with the 4th dimension is.

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Yeah, it basically says, well, if I can do it like this from a 2d to 3d perspective, I can do the same from a 3d to 4d perspective. We could carry on an infinite loop to use the 1000th dimension to bypass that wall that's been plaguing is for the previous 999 dimensions.

I mean, it could be a decent mechanic for a puzzle game, but it's no different to using time to rewind segments of levels, or altering the level in other way.

No; basically, imagine this: when you go to the fourth dimension; your just seeing a different side (still with me here?) of the board. But it's still the same board. When you walk to other side of the fourth dimension, then go back to the third, you will see that you've only walked around the obstacle.

This isn't really a 4th dimension though, this is a different side to a 3rd dimension.

1st dimension is a line (no width/height) [there's a good reason why no games are ever "1D" games]
2nd dimension is a plane (up, down, left right)
3rd dimension adds width/depth to said plane, and is the most common because, well, as humans on Earth, we live in said dimension.
So... How does one add another dimension to this in the practical sense? You can justify it like the video tries to, but it doesn't really explain what the 4th dimension is because I don't think there really is one that we can perceive.

[Rixis]

This isn't really a 4th dimension though, this is a different side to a 3rd dimension.

Kinda what I was getting at

I was agreeing with Pen.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

This is how I feel, too. While I get the 2D-3D concept and I'm not criticizing the game for what it is (because it's a neat concept in an era devoid of good concepts besides SHOOT EVERYTHING), I'm criticizing calling something 4D without actually telling us with the 4th dimension is.

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This isn't really a 4th dimension though, this is a different side to a 3rd dimension.

It's exactly like what the 3rd dimmension is to the 2nd dimmension; it's there, even though you don't see it. But it's there. It's basically just another side. That's it.

[Polarthief]

It's exactly like what the 3rd dimmension is to the 2nd dimmension; it's there, even though you don't see it. But it's there. It's basically just another side. That's it.

Except the video gave a PERFECT example of how to understand 3D in 2D*, without giving a scrap of reasoning to make us understand the 4th dimension. That's because you simply can't do that. You can try to justify it, but to claim your game is 4D and give a 2D-3D reasoning to explain 3D-4D makes no sense. That's like spinning a Rubix Cube on a different side and saying "oh look, that's the 4D piece that belongs on this 3D object".

Again, not criticizing the guy, but a bit more clarity would be nice because it doesn't explain the 4th dimension in any way. You can't use the example of 2D to 3D for 3D to 4D because it's significantly more complicated than that. Where does the 4th dimension space come from? How can you not see it when the world has depth? That makes literally no sense. If he wants to claim this is a 4D game, then I'd like to see a specific explanation of 3D-4D just like he did with 2D-3D because I see no proof of a 4th dimension here.


* Another perfect concept of this is Super Paper Mario, where the world is 3D, but you're primarily in the 2D plane.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Except the video gave a PERFECT example of how to understand 3D in 2D*, without giving a scrap of reasoning to make us understand the 4th dimension. That's because you simply can't do that. You can try to justify it, but to claim your game is 4D and give a 2D-3D reasoning to explain 3D-4D makes no sense. That's like spinning a Rubix Cube on a different side and saying "oh look, that's the 4D piece that belongs on this 3D object".


* Another perfect concept of this is Super Paper Mario, where the world is 3D, but you're primarily in the 2D plane.

Stop trying to understand the 4th dimmension; you never will. Because all we've ever known is the third. Just go with it!

[Rixis]

If we're to stop trying to understand it, why is he trying to explain it.

[Polarthief]

Stop trying to understand the 4th dimmension; you never will. Because all we've ever known is the third. Just go with it!

So if I never will, and you never will, and no one ever will, how can anyone claim their game is a 4D game? You even just said it yourself that all we've known up to is the 3rd, so how can someone make a game in the 4th?

If we're to stop trying to understand it, why is he trying to explain it.

Exactly. Again, not criticizing the game; it looks cool and I'd probably buy it, IF I could understand it better because all I saw was a guy who went from a river-ish place with a wall, to a desert, to the other side, and I don't understand how in any way.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

If we're to stop trying to understand it, why is he trying to explain it.

Just so you can grasp the concept; you don't actually need to dazzle your brain with trying to comprehend how this is supposedly going to look like.

[Rixis]

All this rigmarole to basically say, oh hey look guys, with this new game mechanic, you can walk through objects.

[Polarthief]

Just so you can grasp the concept; you don't actually need to dazzle your brain with trying to comprehend how this is supposedly going to look like.

We're not. It simply didn't explain it. Going from 2D to 3D is understandable because it's going from no depth to with depth. 3D to 4D (as shown in the video) means teleporting to some other place, which then lets you teleport back to the other side of some other place.

I'm just saying, you can't claim a 4th dimension with no proof or explanation of where it comes from. Why was there no example showing 3D to 4D as there was 2D to 3D?

[Piglord]

I took the 4th dimension as being time since the original wall was a pile of rubble, but I'm drinking so what the fuck do i know?


ps. everything

[Fallen Angel]

This doesn't even look like that great of a platformer. Not to mention we as humans can't really comprehend the 4th dimension anyway.

[Post]

Stop trying to understand the 4th dimmension; you never will. Because all we've ever known is the third. Just go with it!

This kinda sounds like "this guy sounded smart, this must be cool!!". It didn't show what the 4th dimension is, and if nobody will ever get it then he doesn't either and nobody can actually know if there's a 4th dimension or illustrate it in a game.

[Polarthief]

I took the 4th dimension as being time since the original wall was a pile of rubble, but I'm drinking so what the fuck do i know?


ps. everything

That would just be a rewind/fast forward mechanic, though if time IS the 4th dimension and the character went back (or forward) in time to get around it, then that's a perfectly logical explanation.

This doesn't even look like that great of a platformer. Not to mention we as humans can't really comprehend the 4th dimension anyway.

Yet apparently the OP and creator of the game can.

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This kinda sounds like "this guy sounded smart, this must be cool!!". It didn't show what the 4th dimension is, and if nobody will ever get it then he doesn't either and nobody can actually know if there's a 4th dimension or illustrate it in a game.

Exactly this. It LOOKS cool, but has no explanation and therefore cannot be claimed as a "4D game".

[Truhan]

You know what this game reminded me of? Fez. Just saying.