Doing more DPS as ilevel 846 with all crit than ilevel 852 with lower crit

[genzic8787]

You mean to tell me stats are more important than straight ilvl? I am truly shocked. SHOCKED I SAY!

lol theres a crazy new theory that skill trumps ilvl as well.. the world is coming to a end i say

[genzic8787]

it quite common for some ppl to go only for the ilvl and not the the stats eventho fire is so dependent on crit a lot of ppl still go "oh thats a 20 ilvl upgrade" not knowing that it might only be a sidegrade at best bcoz of the potential loss of crit, if you're a fire mage, if it aint got crit, then its prolly shit, is a good mantra to follow.

i do believe you but there is always an exception... i am currently at ilvl 860 and got 860 swarming plague the other day and i replaced my 835 baton with it.. yes i lose 890 crit or something but it deals almost 8% of my dmg and brings my haste up to 7% its the only haste item i use but.. i do believe u can sub some things

[Deleted]

Stats are more important than ilvl, yet many people don't understand that. It goes for other classes as well, like arms warriors you want mastery (high) and either vers or haste as second stat.
Gear without mastery isn't worth anything, no matter ilvl.

[Deleted]

Gear without mastery isn't worth anything, no matter ilvl.

thats not entirely true, generally you'd want crit/mastery on your gear but haste afaik is still your 2nd best stats for ST dps.

[genzic8787]

thats not entirely true, generally you'd want crit/mastery on your gear but haste afaik is still your 2nd best stats for ST dps.

and one of the strongest ST trinket in the game just happens to have haste on it... so what can u do.. use it and get your soft haste cap on

[Deleted]

and one of the strongest ST trinket in the game just happens to have haste on it... so what can u do.. use it and get your soft haste cap on

swarming plaguehive is one of the strongest trinkets? Seriously?

[Deleted]

thats not entirely true, generally you'd want crit/mastery on your gear but haste afaik is still your 2nd best stats for ST dps.

In the real world i find it hard to believe haste to be a valuable stat for fire. With movement and procs and such.
Hell even bloodlust feels underwhelming. I'd gladly have 0 haste and just have crit and mastery.

[kheath812]

In the real world i find it hard to believe haste to be a valuable stat for fire. With movement and procs and such.
Hell even bloodlust feels underwhelming. I'd gladly have 0 haste and just have crit and mastery.

well then youd be gimping yourself because you want to hit 1800 haste for your combustion.

[Deleted]

Why is there a soft haste cap? who came up with those numbers?

[Biomega]

Why is there a soft haste cap? who came up with those numbers?

It's not a "cap" per se, it's just the point at which you can squeeze in an extra Pyro into your Combustion window due to GCD reduction.

Haste isn't actually a terrible stat for single target. Actively avoiding haste past 1800 may not be optimal depending on various factors. The usually recommended Crit/Mastery is only great with multiple targets - and you'll feel the difference once you're down to a single target (where Mastery is the worst stat). Luckily there's only really one Mythic raid fight where you're pure ST (Nythendra).

Personally, I have some alternative pieces I swap around based on the fight. I do use my full Crit/Mastery setup for dungeons, though, and it works great in M+. But in raids, I often go with more haste to no detriment, because even in fights with some AoE you may want a bit of ST focus (e.g. Cenarius or Elerethe Renferal).

[Sylvaeres]

Sim yourself for stat weights or use the generic single target / 4 target cleave stat weights off Altered Time.

Then input them into pawn.

You might be surprised with the results from non crit pieces, and how much of an upgrade they can be (obviously I'm referring to higher ilvl non crit gear vs lower ilvl crit gear).

- - - Updated - - -



It definitely doesn't seem right that they are advising that.

According to Altered Time Single Target stat weights.

Crit is worth 8.65 dps
Int is worth 8.02 dps

So from that:
A 375 crit gem would be worth 3,088.05 dps
Vs
200 intellect gem worth 1604 dps

Crit seems to be the way to go.

I'll give you a million gold if you can produce a 375 crit gem right now.

[pies1]

Something must've gone horribly wrong with my sim if you guys are getting crit higher than int


Edit: can't post images

http://imgur.com/a/6214T

[Deleted]

It's not a "cap" per se, it's just the point at which you can squeeze in an extra Pyro into your Combustion window due to GCD reduction.

Haste isn't actually a terrible stat for single target. Actively avoiding haste past 1800 may not be optimal depending on various factors. The usually recommended Crit/Mastery is only great with multiple targets - and you'll feel the difference once you're down to a single target (where Mastery is the worst stat). Luckily there's only really one Mythic raid fight where you're pure ST (Nythendra).

Personally, I have some alternative pieces I swap around based on the fight. I do use my full Crit/Mastery setup for dungeons, though, and it works great in M+. But in raids, I often go with more haste to no detriment, because even in fights with some AoE you may want a bit of ST focus (e.g. Cenarius or Elerethe Renferal).

i think it ultimately depends on your preference as to how much crit you sit at, im sitting at 3k myself and while that is significantly above the so-called softcap i rather like the pace of the spec with that amount of haste and tbh im not too fussed about the aoe dps i do, i have the DB helm so im fine either way, i prefer to be optimal for ST anyway coz it improves my dps on priority targets which atm seems to be the way to go based on the way blizz has designed the encounters and im still sitting at 15% mastery and 56% crit so i should be fine anyway

[Deleted]

I just went and did some research and apparently you don't have to have to different sets to put on, you only need the gear in the bag for it to display. So that'll save some headache while applying to groups, but it won't change the declines haha.... :'(

you dont even have to have it in your bag, putting it on your bank also counts. As long as you COULD have that ilvl, the game will show it. just pray noone inspects you

[Biomega]

i think it ultimately depends on your preference as to how much crit you sit at

I assume you mean haste here; but either way, "preference" is a bit of an awkward term. We're dealing with a world of math and fairly exact data, and if your goal is maximizing your DPS then you should orientate your decisions based around mathematically proven gains. That being said, do not construe this to mean "follow SimCraft results religiously". While SimCraft is a great tool and one of the best guideline models, it remains an imperfect representation. Real fights have specific, concrete mechanics that play into the general abstraction of a mathematical model, and can change things around. Still, SimCraft is a very handy tool in giving us data to then apply to a particular fight.

However, the biggest issue I find is actually gear availability. We are provided with simulation results, but real players have real loot and have to build around that. Very often there you'll be faced with decisions like e.g. going for a higher ilvl piece with haste, and in many such cases it is correct to pick up that piece even going past that "magical" breakpoint of 1800 haste. It may even be correct to go for a piece without crit (I know, heresy!) if the ilvl difference is significant enough - but of course, it would have to be VERY significant (e.g. I am using a mastery/vers cloak because it's 30 ilvl above any other cloak I have).

I often see people quoting the 1800 haste "cap" like some sort of taboo threshold that you must not go above - and it's just not that simple. You should try not go BELOW it, though, so as not to miss the extra GCD during Combustion. Then again, 1800 is fairly trivial considering you already have some on your artifact by default and can gem/enchant for it as needed regardless of what gear you have available.

[Deleted]

You'd think a 6 total item level would be way better regardless of stats but my own testing seem to indicate that having major crit stats on everything is just much more consistent high damage. Even switching 850 gloves with minor crit to blue 830 gloves with major crit and socket seems better.

Thoughts.

A belt with 20 more ilvl but no crit/mastery gives me less DPS than my current one with crit on it.
This is not surprising.

[Mirissi]

Something must've gone horribly wrong with my sim if you guys are getting crit higher than int


Edit: can't post images

http://imgur.com/a/6214T

You need to have the artifact trait "Pyretic Incantation" for crit to sim higher than int. For now, just stack crit for the DPS boost when you finally get the trait and the general QOL improvement it gives for Fire.

[kamuimac]

You'd think a 6 total item level would be way better regardless of stats but my own testing seem to indicate that having major crit stats on everything is just much more consistent high damage. Even switching 850 gloves with minor crit to blue 830 gloves with major crit and socket seems better.

Thoughts.

though blizzard tunign team is retarded and shoudl be serving fries in mcdonald and not work on computer games if they cannot tune it 1:1:1:1 with like 3-5 % deviation

[Xirrohon]

i do believe you but there is always an exception... i am currently at ilvl 860 and got 860 swarming plague the other day and i replaced my 835 baton with it.. yes i lose 890 crit or something but it deals almost 8% of my dmg and brings my haste up to 7% its the only haste item i use but.. i do believe u can sub some things

Theres no way that can be right. I have an 880 Plaguehive and it sims about equal to my 835 baton. The times Ive tried Plaguehive it was doing around 2% of my damage.

[kaamila]

im 862 in my bag and 853 equipped cuz those other high pieces have haste/vers on it.